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Information requested from Module Developers wanting to sell modules RSS

23 replies

Last post May 08, 2005 06:15 PM by cathal

Nik Kalyani
Speerio, Inc.

[DotNetNuke and ASP.Net solutions here]
  • adefwebserver

    adefwebserve...

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    Re: Information requested from Module Developers wanting to sell modules

    Apr 25, 2005 02:34 PM|adefwebserver|LINK

    What I like is that a trusted person (Nina) says "I have looked at this module and it does what it says". For that I would buy from Nina's site. Yes the additional user reviews would be nice too but really all we need is for one person who has a reputation around here (Nina) to "put it on the line". In return she deserves the sales commision. She is performing a service. Also if she is going to give a bad review she can tell the module developer before hand so they can have the opportunity to fix whatever problems they have. This would make modules developers work harder because they will be "reviewed".

    Open Light Group

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  • RLyda

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    Re: Information requested from Module Developers wanting to sell modules

    Apr 25, 2005 02:36 PM|RLyda|LINK

    Ratings yes, but moderated.  I don't like Snow's putting all control into the developer's hands (I've had reasonable but bad feedback simply dropped by authors).  I would think an ideal rating system might include: 

    1) User enters # of stars AND reason feedback; 

    2) If feedback is missing, or upon moderator review is deemed incomplete/jibberish to get by the validation, then disallow that particular vote;

    3) If the feedback is negative, and the developer can prove to the moderator that the claim is incorrect, then disallow that particular vote; 

    4) If the feedback is negative, and the developer can prove to the moderator that the claim has been addressed by a free patch or other upgrade, then disallow that particular vote; 

    5) If the feedback is negative, and the developer can prove to the moderator that the claim has been addressed by a purchasable upgrade; then add back half the difference between the given score and the max score;

    6) Weight diminish the scores based upon the number of major versions between the version the review was based upon and the current version.

    Keep up the enthusiasm and standards Nina!  Good work...

    Robert

  • codegalaxy

    codegalaxy

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    Re: Information requested from Module Developers wanting to sell modules

    Apr 25, 2005 02:55 PM|codegalaxy|LINK

    To a point I have to agree with Nik.  An independent rating place would be a great resource but it would have to be independent of sales.  Kind of a consumer reports type of setup -

    Two problems that I see off the bat with that is resources to host a site to review products and how to gain credibility with the DNN community -

    A project like this would have to have a big name behind it from the core team at the outset

    Dylan Barber
    read my stupid blog http://codemypantsoff.com
  • AerosSaga

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    Re: Information requested from Module Developers wanting to sell modules

    Apr 25, 2005 02:58 PM|AerosSaga|LINK

    I'm with Nik on this one, I really just don't see a need for another store. I mean if a person is too lazy to do any research before they purchase a product I seriously doubt they are going to read reviews. Furthermore the reason I prefer to use snowcovered is because its a central repository of my DNN purchases. I don't have to go looking for 50 different developers sites to find updates/info/etc. My comments are not intended to be derogatory , or dissuade your venture, just my two cents.
    Regards,

    Scott Schecter
    EntitySpaces
    Schecter Technology Solutions
  • nokiko

    nokiko

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    Re: Information requested from Module Developers wanting to sell modules

    Apr 25, 2005 03:07 PM|nokiko|LINK

    mmm

    True that module buyers want a central place but talking as a developer who has stuff on snowcovered, and what others have said also. You pay a hefty 25% of your income just to be on a central repository store with a few features and totally no quality control what so ever

    Armand Datema
  • AerosSaga

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    Re: Information requested from Module Developers wanting to sell modules

    Apr 25, 2005 03:35 PM|AerosSaga|LINK

    nokiko

    You pay a hefty 25% of your income just to be on a central repository store with a few features and totally no quality control what so ever



    25% is pretty standard as Nik suggested. Furthermore, the market determines the quality of the product. As long as stupid people will pay $50 for an image module they will continue to be sold bottom line. I think your putting the cart before the horse.

    Nik also makes a lot of valid points here, I agree with most all of his points.

    [link]http://blogs.speerio.net/peerio/My+Thoughts+On+SnowCovered.aspx[/link]
    Regards,

    Scott Schecter
    EntitySpaces
    Schecter Technology Solutions
  • cniknet

    cniknet

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    Re: Information requested from Module Developers wanting to sell modules

    Apr 25, 2005 03:39 PM|cniknet|LINK

    I don't see the problem with the 25%...it is well within the limit of 18-30% which is the standard for the industry.

    It's all a matter of perception. Pay someone to do the marketing for you, or do it yourself through other channels. One way or the other, you are going to pay, unless your work is so well-known that people come beating down your door (or your site) looking for your products. Seeing the 25% as "your income" is a bit naive, no? This business is all about eyeballs and without the SC marketing reach most of that income would not be yours at all. It is easy to grumble about the discount (or commission as SC calls it) when you are getting the sales through SC and forget that without the infrastructure, aggregation and marketing they provide, you would be doing it all yourself.

    The decision to post or not post on SC is a no-brainer -- for the same amount of money as the commission, can you get at least the same or better results (don't forget to add the cost of your time)? If you answer yes, then SC is not for you. And here's a rhetorical question -- in the big scheme of things would you rather have 100% of 10 sales, or 75% of 25 sales?

    Although I neither like having my products lost in the warehouse, nor do I like the U.I., SC is still a good investment because it provides a zero capital, high marketing reach for any software publisher catering to the DNN market. I would be crazy not to maintain at least some presence on their site, which is exactly what I do right now.

    Nik

     

    Nik Kalyani
    Speerio, Inc.

    [DotNetNuke and ASP.Net solutions here]
  • phr0ze

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    Re: Information requested from Module Developers wanting to sell modules

    Apr 25, 2005 03:44 PM|phr0ze|LINK

    Well to tell you the truth its up to the developers to test their products, not the store. But the store should be accountable for selling bad products and offer refunds. When you shop at Sears, if the product is bad, Sears handles the return for a period of time. If Sears gets too many returns, then they drop the product line. I know with the software world, returns are near impossible to handle because of dishonest people. Although if returns could be worked out, that would solve all the quality issues. 

    Snowcovered 25% fee is rediculous, i guess. Raise your price 25% and forget it. The markup in retail can be as high as 200% and higher. The manufacturers usually calculate that markup in the price. I know retail has overhead which snowcovered doesn't but thats part of business. 

    John

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    www.dotnetnukesites.com
  • nokiko

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    Re: Information requested from Module Developers wanting to sell modules

    Apr 25, 2005 03:52 PM|nokiko|LINK

    well we are getting on a sidetrack here, its not the 25% that I mind but the quality of service and overall lack of quality control lately. dnn dev is only money on the side so i dont mind the money too much is just my perception of whats being offered lately, lets keep it at that

    Armand Datema
  • AerosSaga

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    Re: Information requested from Module Developers wanting to sell modules

    Apr 25, 2005 04:21 PM|AerosSaga|LINK

    So what are you saying it should be up to Snowcovered to ensure quality?
    Regards,

    Scott Schecter
    EntitySpaces
    Schecter Technology Solutions
  • thedigitalnomad.com

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    Re: Information requested from Module Developers wanting to sell modules

    Apr 25, 2005 06:48 PM|thedigitalnomad.com|LINK

    Just butting in but I do think its a responsibility of the store manager to meet the expectations of theyre customers wether they are selling their own products or a third parties. Providing quality products and service should be part of any business ethos. The situation here is that the customers have very little choice as to where to shop and developers very little choice as to where to sell. Just like a brick and mortar store if theyre is competition standards need to be maintained and continuosly improved upon.

    Personally,
    I would prefer to deal with the developer directly.
    A directory of reviewed developers would be more beneficial than a directory of reviewed modules.


     

     

  • mzns1

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    Re: Information requested from Module Developers wanting to sell modules

    Apr 25, 2005 07:23 PM|mzns1|LINK

    Nina,

    Good luck in your venture.  Our comments are below...

    Hosters/Hobbyists and Businesses (Intranets)
    We believe that there are 2 types of developers/buyers.

    Hosters/Hobbyists want cheap/free modules.  Period.

    Network/Intranet Administrators
    We are network people.  We know many of those that run the small/medium and large networks throughout our local county.  These are the types of buyers we try to reach and we believe that here is where the need for a new DNN Shop is most needed.  When you run a 100, 200, 500, 1000+ network you need a site that helps you to go home on time...

    Here are some things to consider about Network people when it comes to software.

    1. The developer needs a website with demos, contact information and forums.
    2. Nothing will be purchased from "Anonymous Developers".
    3. Software Patches should be hosted on the Developers website.
       A link to the Developers site must be on the product description page.
    4. Support is most needed AFTER an upgrade, not the initial installation.  After a module is installed and in production, keeping it running becomes critical when it now contains MB's of data.  If an upgrade breaks something we do not want to have to download patch after patch that says "try this".  The developers forum should contain every piece of information we need.
    5. Module developers offering free upgrades for life are naive.
    6. Reviews are like movie reviews.  Most people ignore them.  See Item #1.

    We feel that SnowCovered just sells stuff.  Nothing more, nothing less.  That business model will shortly sink them if they do not improve.  But, then again, the restuarant down the street just went under cause their food was less than mediocre.  We wonder if they knew that...

    Good luck and g'day

    mikez

  • xddg

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    Re: Information requested from Module Developers wanting to sell modules

    Apr 25, 2005 08:36 PM|xddg|LINK

    Wow,thanks so much for the fruitful comments and diversity of thoughts here on this post. I was asleep and I wake up and those great thoughts here. Each one has interesting reading and I've skimmed over them, but would like to read them all in more detail, and post some thoughts further on this.

    I would like to point out something perhaps that might be causing some confusion.

    This is not suggestion as a *review* site, or a rating site to cause some sort of conflict or competition or ill feeling. I don't see this really being in competition with snowcovered, excepting that someone who has involvement in the DNN community would like to help bridge the gaps that are appearing between novice end users who are coming into the market place and wanting to know more about what they buy and how to use it more. 

    My vision for this project isn't simply a buy and sell website - there already is one, so why bother.  It's really meant for the developers who don't have the great infrastructure / time / resources but have good products (and there are plenty that I feel need just a little more refinement, prettying up, flexibility to skin) and are not portrayed to their advantage.

    I have on my own xd.com.au site, my own developer reviews where I have been fortunate to talk with great people, many of whom remain unknown until popular sites, like mine have these little things on them... like the blogs (which is free, and dnnstuff etc). I would think that most developers won't ever have anything for sale on my skinning resource site and that's ok too. I still think plenty of people would really like to know about them.

    XD is my personal site and the very reason I have not decided to run forums/ecommerce on it as I felt it inappropropriate and needed to look for  an independent location and one that has relevance to dnn and not mixed with my own work.

    I'm going to digest these comments posted here and I thank you for taking your time and putting your opinions forward and no offence is taken to any of your thoughts.

    Regards and great to read all this.

    Nina Meiers

    Nina Meiers


    Free Skins & Containers by Nina Meies
  • IcthusTech

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    Re: Information requested from Module Developers wanting to sell modules

    Apr 26, 2005 09:57 AM|IcthusTech|LINK

    I am here as a consumer, not a developer, so read this from that perspective.

    Over the past year I have purchased over 30 different modules from Snowcovered, many of them multiple times for use on multiple installations and I can say without hesitation, there needs to be a different solution.

    In my opinion a central location for purchase is not required. If the developer is not capable of selling and servicing there own products I have very little confidence in them. I am tired of waiting days, weeks, months, or worse forever, to get a response to a support issue. If the sale and support of modules takes place on the developers site you can see immediatly how they respond to requests prior to purchasing.

    As a consumer I value two things above all others.

    1. Timely Support
    2. Responsiveness to enhancement requests.
      1. This does not require the enhancement to be implemented, only a response to the request. "Yes, thats a good idea we'll implement it" or "No we will not be adding that feature" is all I'm looking for.

    I agree that a review process would be very valuable. And I also agree that this process can not be open to anyone who wishes to post a review. I also would suggest the review process be two fold, One review by a user without programing skills focusing on usability and functionality, another review by a programmer looking at the "structural integrity" of the code. The review process should provide a vehicle for the developer to respond and make changes to adjust any non-favorable remarks.

    I think that Scott McCulloch has got it exactly right. His subscription model is fantastic, but even if he were to sell his modules by each the result would be the same. Superior products backed by magnificent support coupled with an enhancement and bug reporting process that is unmatched. If more developers followed his lead all users would benefit. Take 2 minutes, go to his site and look through the forums. You instantly know you are dealing with a quality individual who cares about what his customers want and need. You know you can purchase his products confident you will receive the service you deserve as a paying customer.

    One of the biggest issues I think we have is the development process. Far to many modules are developed by skilled programmers to file a need they have. Once that need is filled they figure they can make the module available for sale to recover some development costs. Many very good modules have come out of this process, so have many others that are, well, less than good.

    The market will shake itself out over time, the good developers will continue to refine and enhance the products they have. They will also ask for and see the need for other solutions within the community and provide the appropriate products.

    Nina, I admire your desire to provide Snowcovered with competition, and I assure you I will be a customer, but only if I can't get it from Scott McCulloch or Will Morgenweck (Active Modules)

    Respectfully,
    Jack Hoelz


  • rodneyjoyce

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    Re: Information requested from Module Developers wanting to sell modules

    May 08, 2005 05:46 AM|rodneyjoyce|LINK

    Sorry - I jumped on this thread a bit late, but I want to add my opinion:

    I think there SHOULD be another store. The industry needs competition, and it benefits everyone to have healthy competition. If one store offers a new feature or idea, the competition will quickly catchup and it moves forward.

    I agree with nokiko on the 25% commision (or discount). It's not the 25% that I mind paying (as you say Nik - thats the going rate)- but it's the service SC provides - is it currently worth 25%. I will list my products on SC because it is the only one. And of course it's not up to the distributer to ensure quality (although in the Walmart example there will be a merchandiser who would at least hopefully not stock "Contaminated CocoPops" from DodgyBros) but the distributer does have to provide a service to justify the distribution charge (Note I have not yet listed anything on SC so I am not saying SC don't - just food for thought).

    I sell Pocket PC games on www.handango.com and have done so for the last 3 years. They charge 30% but the service (and website) they provide is incredible - for example - you can implement a Handango store engine on your site (see www.smart-thinker.com for EG) and then you only pay 15% commision if bought from your own site (using Handango's payment servers). The quality and professional look of the site easily justifies the 30%, and they reach thousands of people through different channels. Without babbling on too much, I believe it is healthy competition that has made Handango into what it is today and I think the line of "There's already one store, what do we need another one for" is unhealthy for the DNN community...

    I will be listing my products on SC and my website AND any other DNN site I can. It has to start somewhere...

  • phebous

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    Re: Information requested from Module Developers wanting to sell modules

    May 08, 2005 05:56 PM|phebous|LINK

    There is a need out there.  I am not sure if the need is another store or not, although competition is always good.  (And I would support another store.)   What I would like to see over more reviews/beta testers/etc, is a process of certification.  I think that is what you are striving for with your independent beta testers.   

    What I would envision is to have a validation process where a 3rd party would qualify a module.  It is not to say the module is good or bad or even useful.  It is to say it installed correctly for various environments, does not contain errors, and adheres to DNN quality standards.    Once you pass all of the tests, you would be then granted a DNN Certified logo to include with your marketing material.  An example of this is the Microsoft Certification Logo Program.  It just needs to be implemented for DNN Modules. 

    My two cents,

    Phebous...

     

     

     

    www.ricecheesesoftware.com
  • cathal

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    Re: Information requested from Module Developers wanting to sell modules

    May 08, 2005 06:15 PM|cathal|LINK

    FYI: the idea of certifying modules has come up a few times in the past, usually with a vigorous debate on the pro's and con's. You can read some of the previous threads @

    http://forums.asp.net/644160/ShowPost.aspx

    http://forums.asp.net/499960/ShowPost.aspx

    Cathal

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