Last post Jan 07, 2011 04:07 PM by sjnaughton
Dec 18, 2010 12:09 PM|JonnyZero|LINK
Are there any good tutorials on the web that go beyond Joe Stagner's 10 videos?
I greatly appreciate any help!
ASP.NET Dynamic Data
Dyanamic Data Tutorials
Dec 18, 2010 02:04 PM|sjnaughton|LINK
Hi JonnyZero, you could try my blog it covers all things Dynamic Data
C# Bits they are not step by step tutorials in a sequence as they cover issues an ideas as they occured to me or as I need a solution myself.
Dynamic Data 4
Dec 18, 2010 02:14 PM|JonnyZero|LINK
Do you have any VB tutorials? My application is in VB.
Dec 18, 2010 04:13 PM|sjnaughton|LINK
Sorr Jonny, no I stopped doing VB about 4 years ago [:(]
Dec 18, 2010 05:57 PM|JonnyZero|LINK
Why did you stop if you don't mind me asking?
Dec 19, 2010 05:05 AM|farm boy|LINK
I don't know why Steve stopped using VB but I made the decision to go for C# some time before Steve did.
My investigation showed that:
(a) everything ends up as MSIL.
(b) The VB solutions that I saw all contained between 40% and 80% more lines of code than the equivalent C#
(c) C# is designed to work with .NET
So "Logic Dictated" that I went for C#.
You can find a more extensive explanation at
Hope this helps
Dec 19, 2010 01:16 PM|sjnaughton|LINK
Dec 19, 2010 08:54 PM|JonnyZero|LINK
Hmm. That sounds logical. I just started bulding an app in vb and now i am seriously debating going c#. Decisions decisions. Thanks for your reply. Guess if I don't get any responses in a day or two I will close this out. Thanks for your input.
Dec 21, 2010 02:42 PM|tony301|LINK
Why close it, this is a very valid question and it may be of interest to many. I found it when googling for more information about C# and it made me register.
I'm new to C# and when you asked Steve why he chose C# I imediately bookmarked this page because I was also curious about it.
I'm currently reading
ASP.net 4 in C# and VB by Imar Spaanjaars and although I find the material very basic because it is written for new web wevelopers, it answers many of my questions. Imar writes every topic on both languages in case we choose one or the other or in case
we are not yet sure about which one to use.
Thank you all!
Dynamic Data 4
Dynamic Data .net c# 4.0
Dec 21, 2010 03:20 PM|farm boy|LINK
Yes, I agree that Imar Spaanjaar's book is very good.
Although a beginner will learn a lot with this book, and an experienced person may clear up a few loose ends, it does not discuss dynamic data. In over 800 pages, Imar mentions dynamic data in only five sentences or so.
Dec 21, 2010 04:35 PM|tony301|LINK
Hi Ken, its true I've already noticed that.
Since I'm also new to Visual Web Developer 2010 I'm using this book to get a solid foundation on the VWD before getting deeper into C#. Visual Studio is totally new to me. Imar introduces C# and VB concepts but he also writes about supporting technologies
such as JQuery, CSS and of course HTML so it is a good way to review, grasp some new pointers and move on with a solid perspective of what is ahead. I haven't read the whole book yet. This is what I gather from what I've read so far and from looking ahead
in the subsequent chapters.
Perhaps someone could recomend a C# book as a follow up.
Dec 22, 2010 11:20 AM|PeterSkellern|LINK
Thank you. I am very dissapointed. I bought the Wiley ASP.Net trainer hoping it will be quite extense and deep. None of that happened. The training is absolutelly basic. Moreover, it is divided in two parts which are almost the same but with different syntax:
ASP.Net and MVC. Only two chapters about Dynamic Data; very basic ones. Not really much help for developing real life applications. Free samples of the AppDev trainings also seem to point in the same direction. The problem is that those tutorials are expensive
so you might wish to find there not just basic stuff that you can easily find browsing blogs about ASP.Net. Where to go from here?
Dec 22, 2010 11:59 AM|farm boy|LINK
Where to go from here?
In my experience, the only effective way to learn anything is to do it and learn from your mistakes.
Of course it always helps to have a guide, and indeed some environments (e.g. learning to fly) are so potentially lethal that trainee pilots are required to have a
qualified flying instructor as a guide.
Unfortunately for us, the requirements for being a "programming instructor" aren't quite so rigorous as they are for being a flying instructor. And as we are all finding out, knowing how to do something (e.g. fly a plane or write ASP.NET code) is not a sufficient
condition. You also need to know how to teach - and ideally, be tested and thus "qualified" in your ability to teach the appropriate subject.
Speaking as a former flying instructor, I am apalled at the atrocious quality of most of the instructional materal (books and videos) in the software development industry.
So: "Where to go from here?" you ask.
My recommendation is to
(1) Use a good teaching book (e.g. Imar Spaanyaars' book) to guide you through a series of practical exercises.
(2) Try to develop a small asp.net application for a domain that you know something about.
(3) When you hit a problem, post specific questions in a forum such as this.
With any luck you will get advice from experts such as Steve Naughton and Imar.
Imar has his own piece of the Wrox P2P forum and usually answers questions within hours and sometimes minutes.
Hope this helps
Dec 23, 2010 09:38 AM|tony301|LINK
It surely helps, its good to have ideas from those who have been through this path before.
Just a note I didn't mention before, for those who subscribe Lynda.com there is an interesting course called ASP.NET Essential Training by David Gassner and although it is a bit outdated I find it to work well with VWD 2010. I'ts a 6 hour course and it seems
to be a great complement for Imar's book since it gives us a visual point of view. Between Imar's book mentioned before and this course from Lynda's I'm really enjoying my introduction to ASP.NET.
Of course there are many ways to skin a cat and by sharing what we are doing we may be able to help someone else gathering ideas or even get advice from others who know better and might see us taking a wrong turn.
And yes, I wish we could be sure of an author or a teacher before we invest our time and money on training materials.
Learn Dynamic Data
Jan 05, 2011 09:38 AM|PeterSkellern|LINK
Thank you. With due respect I must say that C#Bits even tough is very well elaborated and rich in solutions it is not intended to be a self teaching resource nor can it be considered a site that could be easily understood for beginners. Having said that
I must also say that it is amazing how scarce training material is available on the matter of Dynamic Data, not just for free. If you speak about training material for customization you will find nothing on the market
Jan 05, 2011 10:13 AM|farm boy|LINK
You are right. C#Bits is not easy going but it appears to be one of the few resources for DD support.
The "DD situation" reminds me of the times i have walked into a shop and asked if they have a particular product or service and been a bit taken aback when the shop person has said "Sorry but there is no demand for that".
Translated into "supplier speak" I suppose it means "Oh, we can't make a million dollars in the next three months with such an offering so it's not worth our while".
Jan 05, 2011 10:35 AM|PeterSkellern|LINK
Thank you. I have regrettably read two unresolved complaints about this matter. In both cases you can see that the people involved in dynamic data development are pretty aware of this irregularity but it seems that there is no commitment in fixing it in
a short term
Jan 05, 2011 11:29 AM|sjnaughton|LINK
Hi Guys, there are things being done about the docs here and I am looking into doing a book on DD it's won't be a big money maker but hopefully I'll get it out there.
I always look at this this way, if you look at the level of interest in DD compared to MVC or Silverlight the I know where I would put the most resources if it were my company, i.e. where the most people are asking questions.
If more people use and ask questions about DD then I would put more resources there.
Also remember that DD is just a little layer of goodness on the top of ASP.Net Web Forms, it's not a full blown Framework like ASP.Net MVC.
Jan 05, 2011 11:49 AM|PeterSkellern|LINK
Thank you. I disagree with you a little. DD as you call it is a terrific tool if not a framework. The only problem is the absence of literature for learning it beyond the basics. I don’t think it is a matter of comparing it with other products because the
fact is that DD is already there and we shouldn’t be even interested in using it if it not were because of your work around it. If you have spent thousands of hours in this product is because it is worthwhile, don’t you think?
If you say in C#Bits
Stephen Naughton Newton-le-Willows, Merseyside, United Kingdom
I'm old according to my three daughters (aged 18, 23 & 25)
I am currently working as a freelance ASP.Net and Dynamic Data Developer.
Contact - Steve@NotAClue.Net for availability. Follow me on twitter @sjnaughton
I think is because you mean it, otherwise you wouldn’t be earning a life with DD
Jan 05, 2011 11:58 AM|sjnaughton|LINK
If you have spent thousands of hours in this product is because it is worthwhile, don’t you think?
Hi Peter, I think my time is very worthwhile spent with DD, I just think that when you look at the impact of DD compared to other MS products I undestand the placment of effort [:)]
I think for this year I will start some beyond the basics tutorials on my blog and hopfully fill the gap that many see in the documentation. [:)]
Jan 05, 2011 12:00 PM|PeterSkellern|LINK
Thank you. I feel the urge of adding something to what I said. I can even imagine how have you done for discovering all those classes and language gadgets that you use in your blog. You can find its definitions in msdn but I can’t find a way of learning
how to use them from there. It seems like fireworks the way you put them to work. That’s just amazing
Jan 05, 2011 12:06 PM|sjnaughton|LINK
Thanks Peter [:)] encouragment is always welcome even if it make my head fat sometimes [:D]
Jan 06, 2011 02:22 PM|maxisam|LINK
Actually I just went over all the posts in your blog.(C# Bits) I really need to say your blog is awesome for ppl want to learn DD. (not really for entry-level tho )
if you can have something like tag cloud on the side of the blog, it will be very very useful. However, I probably won't go over all the post if you have that . :p
Jan 07, 2011 11:29 AM|sjnaughton|LINK
Hi Maxisam, I did have a TAG cloud on the side but it got too big [:(] I will look at some other bloggin engines, to see if there are better ways to find to posts.
Jan 07, 2011 12:11 PM|PeterSkellern|LINK
When do you think your book on Dynamci Data will be ready? Thank you
Jan 07, 2011 04:07 PM|sjnaughton|LINK
I'm still in the process of seeing if they want to do one [:(]