Andy Rooney's died ... so i'll be the curmudgeon for today ...
it seems to me that some, maybe even many, new members could use an introduciton to help themselves help forums.asp.net members answer the questions that these new members are asking ...
i've noticed questions are often poorly formed, and i do not mean poor English and spelling ... i mean questions like "i need some code to do something" or "my code does not work" ... questions that should show code snippets and do not, et cetera ...
i'm sure other forums.asp.net members could also give many examples.
once many of these new members get their questions answered, they apparently can not be bothered to return to mark the thread as answered and/or tell us why it did not apply to themselves.
MORE INFORMATION
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if a person wants to have a driver's licence in Ontario, Canada, she/he must read a government publication on the rules of the road and then pass a multiple choice test to prove that she/he has done the required reading.
this curmudgeon thinks it would be a good idea for something similar for signing up new forums.asp.net members.
g.
P.S.: imho, their required reading should include these two items:
* you will probably have to type the link http://forums.asp.net/t/1180041.aspx by hand because of a bug with the forums.asp.net editor.
if you click the above link and get a sorry (sic) "Sorry" page, look at the address bar, if you see /p/t delete the /p.
B-) Please help me by completing my school survey about computer programmers on my website. Thank you!!! Gerry Lowry +1 705-429-7550 wasaga beach, ontario, canada
Thanks for the suggestion. It's highy unlikely that Microsoft would agree to putting a barrier to entry here at the ASP.NET Forums. But we could add links to help documents, such as the ones you point out, to the process.
One problem that I'm seeing a lot of lately is that when you help someone, they say thanks that worked! And then mark THEIR OWN thank you post as the answer. And since a post was marked as the answer it never gets changed o_O. Personally I feel kinda cheated
with that lol. I just helped a few people with probably 15-20 posts in a single thread explaining MULTIPLE answers because I would answer one question and they would address another, and then immediately mark THEMSELVES as the person who answered it? sheesh!
And I also agree about the bad questions. I am on here because I sincerely want to help people and I enjoy it a lot, but if someone just comes and says blankly, "I am trying to update my gridview, and when I do nothing happens, please help!" And thats the
entire post... It's irritating to respond constantly with, "Please post code so we can help you." And then if I want to actually help that person I have to track their post more or less.
Another issue I am seeing is that several people have been coming here and basically almost outright asking the members to write their code for them. It would be nice to have a disclaimer on the editor page that says we will do no such thing. It's for help
only, not for doing your work, but I digress.
I don't know if there should be a sort of test, but I think there should be an expected level of respect among each member to honor what we really come here for on the boards, whether it be answers, helping others, community involvement or even keeping up
with latest events in the asp.net world.
I completely agree with the N_EvilScott. I'm exactly here because of the reasons he has pointed out and me too is behaving like him when it comes to this forum. Thank you for saving my
words Scott!
I don't think only beginners behave that way. I see that people who have many posts even do that. Some even mark the original post itself as the answer! So by putting an appitude test, will this problem be solved? As Terri said, I don't think Microsoft will
allow to do that.
I agree it's a pain, but generally speaking, we have to deal with it.
If some post is really dumb, what I normally do is just ignore it.
One problem that I'm seeing a lot of lately is that when you help someone, they say thanks that worked! And then mark THEIR OWN thank you post as the answer. And since a post was marked as the answer it never gets changed o_O. Personally I feel kinda cheated
with that lol. I just helped a few people with probably 15-20 posts in a single thread explaining MULTIPLE answers because I would answer one question and they would address another, and then immediately mark THEMSELVES as the person who answered it? sheesh!
Whenever you see people starting new questions in a thread please use the alert moderators notification system. We can split it off to a new thread, something we already do quite a lot but we can't be everywhere. We also rely on the social control of our
members like yourself.
Grz, Kris.
Read my blog | Twitter Interested in Azure, ASP.NET (MVC), jQuery, WCF, EF, MS SQL, ...
Keep the forums clean: report to the moderation team!
Earlier I used to provide link to new users and user who have not provided enough information in their post on how they should
get their forum question answered and later on I got tired of doing that and then I've included link to Mike's blog post (with his permission) in my signature.
I agree to all your points. Especially it irritates me when people ask you to code for them or for given problem.
Many forum Members write code to just get points and to increase their level. Earlier forum members were not doing the same, but things have changed a lot over the time.
N_EvilScott
It would be nice to have a disclaimer on the editor page that says we will do no such thing. It's for help only, not for doing your work, but I digress.
There should be something similar to stack overflow as mentioned below:
New comers are redirected to page showing forum rules and regulations and when any of the rules violated, moderator can take appropriate action.
When Starting a new thread, they should be presented with similar question (already asked/solved)
Users are allowed to perform certain action based on their points as such to modify certain posts (for providing not enough information or misleading information)
I just helped a few people with probably 15-20 posts in a single thread explaining MULTIPLE answers because I would answer one question and they would address another
Earlier I used to request Original Poster to start a new thread with new question and to mark the current thread as resolved, but had problem with one of the forum member, so I left that practice.
XIII
Whenever you see people starting new questions in a thread please use the alert moderators notification system. We can split it off to a new thread, something we already do quite a lot but we can't be everywhere. We also rely on the social control of our members
like yourself.
Especially it irritates me when people ask you to code for them or for given problem.
Many forum Members write code to just get points and to increase their level. Earlier forum members were not doing the same, but things have changed a lot over the time.
Exactly. Most unfortunate situation is students are seeking to get their projects done by simply posting their assignment here. It is a very pity situation that there are members who provide the full code to them and beg for 10 points. Like they can convert
it to dollars. Even if it can convertable to dollars, I won't do such a thing. It's like ruining his/her whole acedamic life because
if a one get used to it, s/he will go around the internet posting their problem in forums in the future too.
I'm saying the above because I have seen someone keep posting her assignments here and people gave her the full coding. I really doubt she learnt anything at all! Giving an idea and teaching her is one thing. But just giving the full code? It's not the intention
of this forum, definitely not the intention of Microsoft!
I have two questions.
1. Can I Alert moderators if I see such a thing going on?
2. If answer for the above question is 'No', what can we/you do to prevent such things?
Can I Alert moderators if I see such a thing going on?
No. Students are just as entitled to ask for help as anyone else. It's up to the community if they want to provide help. I have often helped students with assignments, if their post leads me to believe they are genuinely interested in understanding and learning
ASP.NET. If they demand code and say it's ugent, I ignore them. That's my choice based on my views.
If someone else wants 10 points for doing their homework, there is nothing we can (or should) do to stop that. There is nothing in the site's terms of use to stop students, or anyone else demanding full coded solutions urgently.
gerrylowry
All-Star
20513 Points
5712 Posts
a radical suggestion for signing up new members ==> a beginner's test
Dec 15, 2011 10:52 PM|LINK
Andy Rooney's died ... so i'll be the curmudgeon for today ...
it seems to me that some, maybe even many, new members could use an introduciton to help themselves help forums.asp.net members answer the questions that these new members are asking ...
i've noticed questions are often poorly formed, and i do not mean poor English and spelling ... i mean questions like "i need some code to do something" or "my code does not work" ... questions that should show code snippets and do not, et cetera ...
i'm sure other forums.asp.net members could also give many examples.
once many of these new members get their questions answered, they apparently can not be bothered to return to mark the thread as answered and/or tell us why it did not apply to themselves.
MORE INFORMATION
---------------------------
if a person wants to have a driver's licence in Ontario, Canada, she/he must read a government publication on the rules of the road and then pass a multiple choice test to prove that she/he has done the required reading.
this curmudgeon thinks it would be a good idea for something similar for signing up new forums.asp.net members.
g.
P.S.: imho, their required reading should include these two items:
Mike Banavige's excellent "Finding your way in the ASP.NET Forums - Tips and Guidelines"
http://forums.asp.net/t/1180041.aspx *
"Suggestions for asking a question on help forums": http://support.microsoft.com/?id=555375
* you will probably have to type the link http://forums.asp.net/t/1180041.aspx by hand because of a bug with the forums.asp.net editor.
if you click the above link and get a sorry (sic) "Sorry" page, look at the address bar, if you see /p/t delete the /p.
tmorton
All-Star
56361 Points
9692 Posts
ASPInsiders
Moderator
Re: a radical suggestion for signing up new members ==> a beginner's test
Dec 15, 2011 11:19 PM|LINK
Thanks for the suggestion. It's highy unlikely that Microsoft would agree to putting a barrier to entry here at the ASP.NET Forums. But we could add links to help documents, such as the ones you point out, to the process.
ASP.NET/IIS.NET Website Manager, Neudesic
N_EvilScott
Star
8179 Points
1466 Posts
Re: a radical suggestion for signing up new members ==> a beginner's test
Dec 15, 2011 11:23 PM|LINK
I agree there are lots of problems.
One problem that I'm seeing a lot of lately is that when you help someone, they say thanks that worked! And then mark THEIR OWN thank you post as the answer. And since a post was marked as the answer it never gets changed o_O. Personally I feel kinda cheated with that lol. I just helped a few people with probably 15-20 posts in a single thread explaining MULTIPLE answers because I would answer one question and they would address another, and then immediately mark THEMSELVES as the person who answered it? sheesh!
And I also agree about the bad questions. I am on here because I sincerely want to help people and I enjoy it a lot, but if someone just comes and says blankly, "I am trying to update my gridview, and when I do nothing happens, please help!" And thats the entire post... It's irritating to respond constantly with, "Please post code so we can help you." And then if I want to actually help that person I have to track their post more or less.
Another issue I am seeing is that several people have been coming here and basically almost outright asking the members to write their code for them. It would be nice to have a disclaimer on the editor page that says we will do no such thing. It's for help only, not for doing your work, but I digress.
I don't know if there should be a sort of test, but I think there should be an expected level of respect among each member to honor what we really come here for on the boards, whether it be answers, helping others, community involvement or even keeping up with latest events in the asp.net world.
Ruchira
All-Star
42973 Points
7024 Posts
MVP
Re: a radical suggestion for signing up new members ==> a beginner's test
Dec 16, 2011 07:55 AM|LINK
I completely agree with the N_EvilScott. I'm exactly here because of the reasons he has pointed out and me too is behaving like him when it comes to this forum. Thank you for saving my words Scott!
I don't think only beginners behave that way. I see that people who have many posts even do that. Some even mark the original post itself as the answer! So by putting an appitude test, will this problem be solved? As Terri said, I don't think Microsoft will allow to do that.
I agree it's a pain, but generally speaking, we have to deal with it.
If some post is really dumb, what I normally do is just ignore it.
My Tech blog | My YouTube ChannelPlease 'Mark as Answer' if this post helps you.XIII
All-Star
182690 Points
23458 Posts
ASPInsiders
Moderator
MVP
Re: a radical suggestion for signing up new members ==> a beginner's test
Dec 16, 2011 08:52 AM|LINK
Hi,
Whenever you see people starting new questions in a thread please use the alert moderators notification system. We can split it off to a new thread, something we already do quite a lot but we can't be everywhere. We also rely on the social control of our members like yourself.
Grz, Kris.
Interested in Azure, ASP.NET (MVC), jQuery, WCF, EF, MS SQL, ...
Keep the forums clean: report to the moderation team!
nilsan
All-Star
16934 Points
3716 Posts
Re: a radical suggestion for signing up new members ==> a beginner's test
Dec 16, 2011 09:11 AM|LINK
@gerrylowry
Earlier I used to provide link to new users and user who have not provided enough information in their post on how they should get their forum question answered and later on I got tired of doing that and then I've included link to Mike's blog post (with his permission) in my signature.
Blog | Get your forum question answered | Microsoft Community Contributor 2011
nilsan
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16934 Points
3716 Posts
Re: a radical suggestion for signing up new members ==> a beginner's test
Dec 16, 2011 09:46 AM|LINK
@N_EvilScott
I agree to all your points. Especially it irritates me when people ask you to code for them or for given problem.
Many forum Members write code to just get points and to increase their level. Earlier forum members were not doing the same, but things have changed a lot over the time.
There should be something similar to stack overflow as mentioned below:
Blog | Get your forum question answered | Microsoft Community Contributor 2011
nilsan
All-Star
16934 Points
3716 Posts
Re: a radical suggestion for signing up new members ==> a beginner's test
Dec 16, 2011 09:51 AM|LINK
Earlier I used to request Original Poster to start a new thread with new question and to mark the current thread as resolved, but had problem with one of the forum member, so I left that practice.
In that case @Kris solution would be helpful.
Blog | Get your forum question answered | Microsoft Community Contributor 2011
Ruchira
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42973 Points
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Re: a radical suggestion for signing up new members ==> a beginner's test
Dec 16, 2011 10:11 AM|LINK
Exactly. Most unfortunate situation is students are seeking to get their projects done by simply posting their assignment here. It is a very pity situation that there are members who provide the full code to them and beg for 10 points. Like they can convert it to dollars.
Even if it can convertable to dollars, I won't do such a thing. It's like ruining his/her whole acedamic life because
if a one get used to it, s/he will go around the internet posting their problem in forums in the future too.
I'm saying the above because I have seen someone keep posting her assignments here and people gave her the full coding. I really doubt she learnt anything at all! Giving an idea and teaching her is one thing. But just giving the full code? It's not the intention of this forum, definitely not the intention of Microsoft!
I have two questions.
1. Can I Alert moderators if I see such a thing going on?
2. If answer for the above question is 'No', what can we/you do to prevent such things?
My Tech blog | My YouTube ChannelPlease 'Mark as Answer' if this post helps you.Mikesdotnett...
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19862 Posts
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Re: a radical suggestion for signing up new members ==> a beginner's test
Dec 16, 2011 11:10 AM|LINK
No. Students are just as entitled to ask for help as anyone else. It's up to the community if they want to provide help. I have often helped students with assignments, if their post leads me to believe they are genuinely interested in understanding and learning ASP.NET. If they demand code and say it's ugent, I ignore them. That's my choice based on my views.
If someone else wants 10 points for doing their homework, there is nothing we can (or should) do to stop that. There is nothing in the site's terms of use to stop students, or anyone else demanding full coded solutions urgently.
Beginning ASP.NET Web Pages with WebMatrix | My Site | Twitter