hi, i'm currently using ASP.NET MVC 4 for production websites even though ASP.NET MVC 4 is pre-beta ... the only bug that i've hit so far has been in ASP.NET MVC since v3 RC2/RTM*; thanks to imran's article, that issue imho is
not a show stopper with regards to my continued use of ASP.NET MVC 4 pre-Beta and onwards.
QUESTION: are the vs2011
Developer Previewssufficientlystable to use for production?
Please note: if i do begin to use vs2011 for production at this time, it will be for
non-critical applications; no lives or enterprises will be endanged. B-)
B-) Please help me by completing my school survey about computer programmers on my website. Thank you!!! Gerry Lowry +1 705-429-7550 wasaga beach, ontario, canada
There is no MSFT support provided for the developer preview, and doing so would also demonstrate that you either didn't read the EULA, or deliberely violated the license terms:
VS11 Developer Preview EULA
1. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS.
You may install and use any number of copies of the software on your devices solely for evaluation purposes to design, develop and test your programs for use with the software.
You may not deploy or distribute any program you design or develop with the software, except that you may deploy your programs internally solely to evaluate any deployment technologies contained in the software.
You may not test the software in a live operating environment or public website unless Microsoft permits you to do so under another agreement
If this post has solved your problem, please select 'Mark as answer'
- Jimmy Lewis
Microsoft SDET
Visual Web Developer Team
There is no MSFT support provided for the developer preview
that's not a big deal to me because there is lots of peer support should i require it
jamlew
doing so would also demonstrate that you didn't read the EULA
of course i did not read the EULA, i have not even downloaded the vs2011Developer Previews
N.B.: this is not a licencing question, it is a question about product stability.
QUESTION: are the vs2011
Developer Previewssufficientlystable to use for production?
g.
B-) Please help me by completing my school survey about computer programmers on my website. Thank you!!! Gerry Lowry +1 705-429-7550 wasaga beach, ontario, canada
There are currently 641 pages (10 items per page) of open bugs in the VS connect site.
https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/Feedback (Live account probably required to gain access). So if your question is a general one about the stability of the Preview, maybe that helps
you to form an opinion.
in 1994-1995, when i was on contract to Microsoft Canada in product support, i was on the Word team ... at that time, the then current version of Word had something like 14000+ bugs ... the majority of those bugs were mostly innocuous for
most Word users. A few, such as the ability to correctly do "Page n of m" in a footer affected all users; the one just mentioned took Microsoft a few versions of Word to resolve (in the last version where ms
tried to make "Page m of n" easy, it still did not work, fortunately, it was fixed in the version after that one).
Mike, and others, are you hitting any show stopper anomalies with the vs2011 Developer Previews?
thnx/gerry
B-) Please help me by completing my school survey about computer programmers on my website. Thank you!!! Gerry Lowry +1 705-429-7550 wasaga beach, ontario, canada
not yet but I haven't done hardcore day to day production ready code tapping development on it either.
If you want to make use of ASP.NET MVC 4 already I can understand, especially for the mobile features which Phil Haack demonstrated at Build. However it seems to be still in a state where not all has been written in stone and things might change while it's
being developed. That's always a tradeoff that you need to make carefully as things may break for you and you end up wasting hours to try to refactor your code. If you're in luck that takes a couple of minutes, if you're out of luck ...
So at this moment in time I simply advice to make use of VS11 and MVC4 to get to know the products but not for customer production code. It would feel a bit like trying to play with the lottery and hope that you end up winning big. Customers usually don't
like that path as they like predications with a big capital P and certainty that the invested time and money will pay off.
Grz, Kris.
Read my blog | Twitter Interested in Azure, ASP.NET (MVC), jQuery, WCF, EF, MS SQL, ...
Keep the forums clean: report to the moderation team!
Marked as answer by gerrylowry on Feb 22, 2012 05:45 PM
doing so would also demonstrate that you didn't read the EULA
of course i did not read the EULA, i have not even downloaded the vs2011Developer Previews
N.B.: this is not a licencing question, it is a question about product stability.
It is *exactly* a licensing question. You state that you want to use the VS2011 Developer Preview for production. The EULA expressly forbids you from doing that.
You may not test the software in a live operating environment or public website ^^ unless Microsoft permits you to do so under another agreement ^^^^
imho, Terri, with all due respect, you're wrong this time.
Let me explain.
By example, ASP.NET MVC CTP (a.k.a. alpha, i.e., pre v1.0) was
sufficiently stable for Jeff Atwood et al to use it to build stackoverflow.
Microsoft products, while still imperfect, have matured so much that,
unless they contain show stoppers, can be used to build production quality software ... there is a
huge difference between build and deploy!
Further, whether i were to choose to violate the EULA (which, BTW, i would not
knowingly do), has absolutely nothing to do wiith the question that i've asked here.
As a decades long Microsoft Partner, i'm one of the few persons on this planet who has taken time to attend a
Friday night seminar at Microsoft on licensing. (aside: the seminar was given by an outside consultant and was the best ever licensing seminer that Microsoft has delivered).
My question is about planning, assessment, and evaluation ... not about ripping off Microsoft.
if i were to build something with the vs2011 developer preview, when the product RTM's/RTW's ... all i would need to do to be in complience with the EULA would be to legally acquire the RTM version and to use it to recompile and publish; i'm involved with
Microsoft programs that allow me to do that.
Terri, i hope the above has helped you to understand why my question is a
technology question and is not a licensing question.
regards,
Gerry
B-) Please help me by completing my school survey about computer programmers on my website. Thank you!!! Gerry Lowry +1 705-429-7550 wasaga beach, ontario, canada
I wouldn't recommend it. I built a few small MVC3 apps while it was still in beta and deployed them to our production server. When MVC3 officially released, enough changes had been made to break my live applications. Being that MVC4 isn't even in beta
yet, you can bet there will be breaking changes between now and the official release.
Hi, Ryan .... by "it", i assume you mean ASP.NET MVC 4 and not vs2011?
i'm not too worried about ASP.NET MVC 4 because i use xUnit.net
for TDD so, at least in theory, i should discover anything that gets broken prior
to deploying it.your comment about late breaking changes is quite valid ... sometimes they are beneficial, but not necessarily so.
also, ASP.NET MVC 4 is open source (MS-PL), so, if necessary, i can dig into the
source code; there are additionally a large number of forums.asp.net members who are able to help me navigate anyASP.NET MVC
4 minefields.
BTW, ASP.NET MVC 4 has features* that i would like to have ... for example, mobile application support.
Ryan, in this thread, my concern is about the current level of stability with vs2011 developer preview. have you tried vs2011 yet?
B-) Please help me by completing my school survey about computer programmers on my website. Thank you!!! Gerry Lowry +1 705-429-7550 wasaga beach, ontario, canada
gerrylowry
All-Star
20513 Points
5712 Posts
is it fair to assume at this time that vs2011 is sufficiently stable to use for production?
Dec 14, 2011 04:58 PM|LINK
hi, i'm currently using ASP.NET MVC 4 for production websites even though ASP.NET MVC 4 is pre-beta ... the only bug that i've hit so far has been in ASP.NET MVC since v3 RC2/RTM*; thanks to imran's article, that issue imho is not a show stopper with regards to my continued use of ASP.NET MVC 4 pre-Beta and onwards.
QUESTION: are the vs2011 Developer Previews sufficiently stable to use for production?
Please note: if i do begin to use vs2011 for production at this time, it will be for non-critical applications; no lives or enterprises will be endanged. B-)
your input and opinions are appreciated.
thank you.
regards, gerry
* http://weblogs.asp.net/imranbaloch/archive/2010/12/26/routing-issue-in-asp-net-mvc-3-rc-2.aspx
jamlew
Participant
1977 Points
256 Posts
Microsoft
Re: is it fair to assume at this time that vs2011 is sufficiently stable to use for production?
Dec 14, 2011 06:42 PM|LINK
There is no MSFT support provided for the developer preview, and doing so would also demonstrate that you either didn't read the EULA, or deliberely violated the license terms:
- Jimmy Lewis
Microsoft SDET
Visual Web Developer Team
gerrylowry
All-Star
20513 Points
5712 Posts
Re: is it fair to assume at this time that vs2011 is sufficiently stable to use for production?
Dec 15, 2011 01:07 AM|LINK
@ jamlew
that's not a big deal to me because there is lots of peer support should i require it
of course i did not read the EULA, i have not even downloaded the vs2011 Developer Previews
N.B.: this is not a licencing question, it is a question about product stability.
QUESTION: are the vs2011 Developer Previews sufficiently stable to use for production?
g.
Mikesdotnett...
All-Star
154852 Points
19855 Posts
Moderator
MVP
Re: is it fair to assume at this time that vs2011 is sufficiently stable to use for production?
Dec 15, 2011 04:54 AM|LINK
There are currently 641 pages (10 items per page) of open bugs in the VS connect site. https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/Feedback (Live account probably required to gain access). So if your question is a general one about the stability of the Preview, maybe that helps you to form an opinion.
Beginning ASP.NET Web Pages with WebMatrix | My Site | Twitter
gerrylowry
All-Star
20513 Points
5712 Posts
Re: is it fair to assume at this time that vs2011 is sufficiently stable to use for production?
Dec 15, 2011 12:38 PM|LINK
@ Mikesdotnetting thank you, Mike, that's a very useful metric.
yes, Mike, i'll check out https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/Feedback , for sure ... that would be over 6400 bugs ...
BTW, 6400+ bugs, while it seems like a large number of bugs, may not be serious ...
what i'll be looking at, at https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/Feedback, is the nature (no pun intended) of the insects (pun intended).
in 1994-1995, when i was on contract to Microsoft Canada in product support, i was on the Word team ... at that time, the then current version of Word had something like 14000+ bugs ... the majority of those bugs were mostly innocuous for most Word users. A few, such as the ability to correctly do "Page n of m" in a footer affected all users; the one just mentioned took Microsoft a few versions of Word to resolve (in the last version where ms tried to make "Page m of n" easy, it still did not work, fortunately, it was fixed in the version after that one).
Mike, and others, are you hitting any show stopper anomalies with the vs2011 Developer Previews?
thnx/gerry
XIII
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182684 Points
23455 Posts
ASPInsiders
Moderator
MVP
Re: is it fair to assume at this time that vs2011 is sufficiently stable to use for production?
Dec 20, 2011 05:32 PM|LINK
Hi,
not yet but I haven't done hardcore day to day production ready code tapping development on it either.
If you want to make use of ASP.NET MVC 4 already I can understand, especially for the mobile features which Phil Haack demonstrated at Build. However it seems to be still in a state where not all has been written in stone and things might change while it's being developed. That's always a tradeoff that you need to make carefully as things may break for you and you end up wasting hours to try to refactor your code. If you're in luck that takes a couple of minutes, if you're out of luck ...
So at this moment in time I simply advice to make use of VS11 and MVC4 to get to know the products but not for customer production code. It would feel a bit like trying to play with the lottery and hope that you end up winning big. Customers usually don't like that path as they like predications with a big capital P and certainty that the invested time and money will pay off.
Grz, Kris.
Interested in Azure, ASP.NET (MVC), jQuery, WCF, EF, MS SQL, ...
Keep the forums clean: report to the moderation team!
tmorton
All-Star
56355 Points
9689 Posts
ASPInsiders
Moderator
Re: is it fair to assume at this time that vs2011 is sufficiently stable to use for production?
Dec 21, 2011 02:39 PM|LINK
It is *exactly* a licensing question. You state that you want to use the VS2011 Developer Preview for production. The EULA expressly forbids you from doing that.
ASP.NET/IIS.NET Website Manager, Neudesic
gerrylowry
All-Star
20513 Points
5712 Posts
Re: is it fair to assume at this time that vs2011 is sufficiently stable to use for production?
Dec 21, 2011 03:15 PM|LINK
@ tmorton
Quoting jamlew
You may not test the software in a
live operating environment or public website
^^
unless Microsoft permits you to do so under another agreement
^^^^
imho, Terri, with all due respect, you're wrong this time.
Let me explain.
By example, ASP.NET MVC CTP (a.k.a. alpha, i.e., pre v1.0) was sufficiently stable for Jeff Atwood et al to use it to build stackoverflow.
Microsoft products, while still imperfect, have matured so much that, unless they contain show stoppers, can be used to build production quality software ... there is a huge difference between build and deploy!
Further, whether i were to choose to violate the EULA (which, BTW, i would not knowingly do), has absolutely nothing to do wiith the question that i've asked here.
As a decades long Microsoft Partner, i'm one of the few persons on this planet who has taken time to attend a Friday night seminar at Microsoft on licensing. (aside: the seminar was given by an outside consultant and was the best ever licensing seminer that Microsoft has delivered).
My question is about planning, assessment, and evaluation ... not about ripping off Microsoft.
if i were to build something with the vs2011 developer preview, when the product RTM's/RTW's ... all i would need to do to be in complience with the EULA would be to legally acquire the RTM version and to use it to recompile and publish; i'm involved with Microsoft programs that allow me to do that.
Terri, i hope the above has helped you to understand why my question is a technology question and is not a licensing question.
regards,
Gerry
ryanw51
Contributor
2363 Points
511 Posts
Re: is it fair to assume at this time that vs2011 is sufficiently stable to use for production?
Dec 27, 2011 01:44 PM|LINK
I wouldn't recommend it. I built a few small MVC3 apps while it was still in beta and deployed them to our production server. When MVC3 officially released, enough changes had been made to break my live applications. Being that MVC4 isn't even in beta yet, you can bet there will be breaking changes between now and the official release.
gerrylowry
All-Star
20513 Points
5712 Posts
Re: is it fair to assume at this time that vs2011 is sufficiently stable to use for production?
Dec 27, 2011 03:56 PM|LINK
@ ryanw51 .... thank you for replying
Hi, Ryan .... by "it", i assume you mean ASP.NET MVC 4 and not vs2011?
i'm not too worried about ASP.NET MVC 4 because i use xUnit.net for TDD so, at least in theory, i should discover anything that gets broken prior to deploying it. your comment about late breaking changes is quite valid ... sometimes they are beneficial, but not necessarily so.
also, ASP.NET MVC 4 is open source (MS-PL), so, if necessary, i can dig into the source code; there are additionally a large number of forums.asp.net members who are able to help me navigate any ASP.NET MVC 4 minefields.
BTW, ASP.NET MVC 4 has features* that i would like to have ... for example, mobile application support.
Ryan, in this thread, my concern is about the current level of stability with vs2011 developer preview. have you tried vs2011 yet?
g.
* Home/MVC/ASP.NET MVC 4 Developer Preview: http://www.asp.net/mvc/mvc4 " ... "Top Features"