Visual Web Developer Design View Still Slow!!!!!! Hotfix KB946581 Does Nothing! HELLLPPPPPP!!!!!!

Last post 07-23-2008 10:33 AM by Naom. 10 replies.

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  • Visual Web Developer Design View Still Slow!!!!!! Hotfix KB946581 Does Nothing! HELLLPPPPPP!!!!!!

    07-20-2008, 7:50 PM
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    • appliedtech
    • Joined on 07-20-2008, 11:16 PM
    • Posts 5

    I'm using VWD EE, and the "Performance Hotfix KB946581" did nothing....SP1 Beta does not solve the problem either.   I even tried borrowing a buddy's unused copy of VStudio 2008 Pro and applied both to it as well....

    Needless to say after probably using up 50% hard drive's useful-life read/write cycles with all the installing/uninstalling, I am back to the same old issue of....I can't simply type!!!!!!!

    Any time I try to use "Design" View, with a table inside of a Wizard, I can't do anything without VWD EE/Vstudio 2008 lagging 20 seconds behind.   I can literally type a whole entire paragraph and not touch the computer, come back in 2-3 minutes and it would still be working on rendering that paragraph!!!!  What gives???  Any Ideas??

    I opened task manager and saw when I tried typing in "Design" view, VWD EE decided to use 50% of my CPU! (since it's a HT P4, with CPU 0 maxed out....I assume its ALL OF MY CPU)!

    I have VWD EE on two different computers, one running XP, one Vista Ultimate, with two different hardware configurations....so I know it's not inherent in the hardware (could be a setting I don't know about but...it's not "faulty" hardware....(I know its my "older" hardware either, I read one person with a Quad Core having the same issue!)

    I wrote a follow up comment on Microsoft Connect to feedback ID #: 312343.   There are 0 workarounds using just VWD EE or Vstudio 2008.    Right now I am forced to use a copy of Sharepoint Designer alongside of VWD EE to layout/edit the page side of my web app.

    The computers I have them setup on:

    Custom Desktop

    P4 w/HT 2.8ghz FSB @ 800mhz (D915PBL Mobo)

    3gb Ram @ 533mhz

    10k RPM HD

    nVidia 6600GT (128 MB)/Ati HD 3450 (512 MB) I have recently switched... 

    Vista Ultimate SP1

     

    Dell Laptop

    P-Mobile 1.4ghz

    1.5 GB Ram

    WinXP Pro SP3

     

    Is anybody else experiencing this issue? Anybody got ideas of any kind?

     

  • Re: Visual Web Developer Design View Still Slow!!!!!! Hotfix KB946581 Does Nothing! HELLLPPPPPP!!!!!!

    07-21-2008, 12:19 PM

    Performance hotfix has nothing to do with design view, it list about 10 specific fixes mostly related to Source view and build performance. SP1 Beta does not contain fixes for the view switch issue, the change is in SP1 RTM only (not yet available to general download): http://blogs.msdn.com/webdevtools/archive/2008/06/18/faster-switch-to-design-view-in-vs-2008-sp1-rtm.aspx

    Thanks

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
  • Re: Visual Web Developer Design View Still Slow!!!!!! Hotfix KB946581 Does Nothing! HELLLPPPPPP!!!!!!

    07-21-2008, 3:55 PM
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    • appliedtech
    • Joined on 07-20-2008, 11:16 PM
    • Posts 5

    Sweet some news put a smile on my face... I'm getting excited for it...if it fixes the slow typing issue that happens even w/o the AJAX control toolkit.  

    Until then I actually did more research into my own experience....found it is directly related to the "overall" size of the page I'm editing (masterpage+contentpage+CSS elements)

    So to help that out a bit, I've commented out any/all background images for the time being, replacing them with similar background colors just for my own personal help...

     

    I love VWD EE/VS 2008 overall, and I was just pulling my hair out over this one...

    On the plus side, this issue has given me the opportunity to rehash my web design skills via markup instead of having to look at the page!!!

    Thanks for the info Mikhail....I appreciate it!!! 


     

  • Re: Visual Web Developer Design View Still Slow!!!!!! Hotfix KB946581 Does Nothing! HELLLPPPPPP!!!!!!

    07-21-2008, 4:38 PM
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    • Sgro
    • Joined on 06-10-2006, 7:55 AM
    • Posts 153
    This sounds like a non-problem to me. I mean, you're getting crazy about something that you shouldn't even use? In years of web development, I never once switched to design view. It could be completely removed from VS and I wouldn't notice it. It produces a total crap markup. The source view is all you need. Test your output in your browser, a standard compliant one for the better.
    Matteo Mosca
    Web Developer
    IWA Member
  • Re: Visual Web Developer Design View Still Slow!!!!!! Hotfix KB946581 Does Nothing! HELLLPPPPPP!!!!!!

    07-21-2008, 5:28 PM
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    • appliedtech
    • Joined on 07-20-2008, 11:16 PM
    • Posts 5

     Well thank you for such a NEGATIVE response...because for me it's a productivity issue, not a "standards" issue...Ill go back and fix standards later...not gonna worry about whether the exact shade of some dude's hair in my painting is right, if I haven't even drawn his outline yet....

    And you, are why web developers are a dime a dozen, you live in your own little world and get all caught up with "standards" and what you consider "proper" ways to do things instead of focusing on what it is you are really trying to accomplish with whatever project/piece of software it is you should be working on.....

    Sure, there are security and performance issues to take into account....but I'm not working with a team of 30-40 developers, I do not want to, and never will--you become too far removed from whomever is your customer/client...or in a third-party-revenue business model (advertising), your user.  

    The only one true "project management" or "development methodology" that exists, is the one that works best for YOU to deliver YOUR product to YOUR customer..

    Wanna know why Toto hasn't had as much success as "experts" predicted in the United States, even though their toilet is "technologically superior?"  Because at the end of the day, it's  just a high-tech piece of porcelain, the nature of which is for us as humans to crap on....

     Sorry if that's an intense response....but I'm not one to be preached to...the essence of "innovation" is economic creativity and economic efficiency...

    I am a human trying to make sense of the world first, and therefore a geek second....  Big Smile

     

  • Re: Visual Web Developer Design View Still Slow!!!!!! Hotfix KB946581 Does Nothing! HELLLPPPPPP!!!!!!

    07-22-2008, 10:15 AM
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    • Sgro
    • Joined on 06-10-2006, 7:55 AM
    • Posts 153

    You're a good example of how to receive an intelligent advice, dodge it and toss it out of the window.

    You think that standards are something "fancy", "cool" and "trendy" with no real utility? That's so silly of you.

    Following web standards has only advantages for you developer, your client and the users. You application will be cross platform, usable even by people with motion problems or poor eyesight (or blind too). Your code will be more mantainable, easy to read, easy to modify in the future. You will be able to change it's appearance by simply writing a new css and replace the old one.

    Of course working this way needs proper knowledge of many things: xhtml, css, unobtrousive js, accessibility, usability, seo, etc... but it's very rewarding in the end.

    If you think that the quick drag -> drop -> databind -> bang -> zomg -> powah approach of asp.net webforms is faster and more friendly, well, that's just an illusion. In the end you're left with a bunch of crap, no reusability, all stuff mixed and you'll lose hours only to do a simply change to your web site/app.

    I am very productive, in fact I boosted company web productivity a lot since I came here, and they were used to design view and all that crap stuff. I showed them the correct way to develop web. They liked it and our now apps take only a little more time in the startup, and that saves us hours and hours in the long run.

    And still people believes in WYSWYG editors.. that makes me "ROFL" so hard. No real, serious and professional web developer uses them. Windows app developers who can't let go what they are used to use them. And the fail so hard.

    You can be offended by this or be smart and take advantage of what I am trying to tell you. It's up to you.

    Matteo Mosca
    Web Developer
    IWA Member
  • Re: Visual Web Developer Design View Still Slow!!!!!! Hotfix KB946581 Does Nothing! HELLLPPPPPP!!!!!!

    07-22-2008, 11:40 AM
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    • appliedtech
    • Joined on 07-20-2008, 11:16 PM
    • Posts 5

    Look, I apologize about the over-enthusiastic response I gave you.  But after 4 months of battling this issue with no resolution, its exciting to see some news on it....

    Think of it as kind of like ordering a new Z06 convertible (Yeah they don't make 'em now, but what if they did! Big Smile), and while you are waiting for GM to build it, the dealer hands you just the standard vanilla convertible Corvette, and the a/c doesn't work! 

    Although the loaner you have and the Z06 you're getting are going to be really different experiences, you know they share a whole heap of parts.....

    You do your research into the A/C problem so you are a knowledgeable consumer, find out there is a fix out there that the dealer will install no charge, so you take your loaner back to the dealer....well then it just goes out again....you take it back to the dealer again because even though the essence of buying a convertible has nothing absolutely necessary to having a/c in your car, but the lack thereof on some summer days can just make life freaking miserable....and besides, everyone that buys something want's their money's worth....

    so again, take it back to the dealer, they say they fixed it, but the air is obviously not blowing cold.   The reality is that GM has no idea what's going on with their hvac systems in their corvette lineup...as a knowledgeable consumer, this kind of ticks you off, because you've already basically committed to a large investment and although you haven't technically bought your Z06 yet, it's still an investment you put a lot of time and energy into....

    so you go back to the dealer after a couple of months...because it's coming in close to getting your Z06, and you b*tch at 'em long enough...and you get an answer! After 4 months of no news, which isn't necessarily their fault, you get an answer that they have identified the problem and are working on the HVAC design so they don't have to keep replacing it.  

    So you are enthusiastic and very appreciative with the people at the dealership for taking time out of THEIR day to listen to you whine and complain.  You are all smiles with them and excited again about the new Z06 convertible with 505HP and a 7k redline that you'll be getting in another month or so.   You couldn't be more thankful that later on you don't have to kick yourself for buying a troubled car maintenance wise....let's face it, it's a big investment and not really worth it if you have misgivings later on...

    Right then, at this momentary point of positive emotions, feeling good about the world, some jerk who's been listening to the conversation between you and the dealer butts in and says "Sound's like a non-problem to me...don't know why you would need a/c in a convertible!?!?!" 

    It's SEEMS like kind of a crappy thing to do to somebody who just had a positive customer experience with something that will ultimately be of significant personal investment.  A statement of "sound's like a non-problem" is just so out of place, that it's first looked as a negative/jerk response instead of advice...

    So am I tossing good advice out the window...not necessarily...please understand the situation before you throw in spectator commentary that is completely unrelated to the issue at hand...





     

  • Re: Visual Web Developer Design View Still Slow!!!!!! Hotfix KB946581 Does Nothing! HELLLPPPPPP!!!!!!

    07-22-2008, 11:48 AM
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    • Naom
    • Joined on 12-31-2007, 2:08 PM
    • New York
    • Posts 605

    I can confirm the issue of slowness in VS 2008 Microsoft Visual Studio 2008
    Version 9.0.21022.8 RTM
    Microsoft .NET Framework
    Version 3.5

    Installed Edition: Standard

    Microsoft Visual Basic 2008   91851-136-1306855-60854
    Microsoft Visual Basic 2008

    Microsoft Visual C# 2008   91851-136-1306855-60854
    Microsoft Visual C# 2008

    Microsoft Visual C++ 2008   91851-136-1306855-60854
    Microsoft Visual C++ 2008

    Microsoft Visual Web Developer 2008   91851-136-1306855-60854
    Microsoft Visual Web Developer 2008

    Hotfix for Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 Standard Edition - ENU (KB944899)   KB944899
    This hotfix is for Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 Standard Edition - ENU.
    If you later install a more recent service pack, this hotfix will be uninstalled automatically.
    For more information, visit http://support.microsoft.com/kb/944899.

    etc.

    Sometimes working in the source view on a complex page slows to a crawl. I can not type anything, have to wait ~ 10-15 sec. for information to appear... 

     

  • Re: Visual Web Developer Design View Still Slow!!!!!! Hotfix KB946581 Does Nothing! HELLLPPPPPP!!!!!!

    07-22-2008, 7:10 PM
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    • techdribble
    • Joined on 03-12-2008, 12:45 AM
    • Posts 5

      @Sgro Your a good example of thinking your way is the only way and if anybody begs to differ than they must automatically be stupid because "its not what you do".  If the world thought like that it would be an incredibly boring place. Not everybody thinks the same way and not everybody will solve the same problem the same way. So the design interface is not for you thats fine but dont assume because it works for you it automatically works for everyone because it doesn't. I use a combination of both source and design  depending on what I am doing and I still get the job done in better than good time. I am a serious developer and have been for over 25 years and have learnt that there is more than one way up the mountain. To stay on topic yes the design interface in VS2008 is slow and doesn't always render correctly.

  • Re: Visual Web Developer Design View Still Slow!!!!!! Hotfix KB946581 Does Nothing! HELLLPPPPPP!!!!!!

    07-23-2008, 3:26 AM
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    • Sgro
    • Joined on 06-10-2006, 7:55 AM
    • Posts 153

    Since when defending and sustaining my own ideas means that I want to force it to everyone or that I think that different is stupid?

    Anyway, I always use some concrete data to sustain my claims, not some personal feeling or whatever.  If you consider real elements, you can see that:

    1) Design mode -> puts inline style, width and height attributes and other crap stuff.

    2) The above mentioned go against the principle that (x)html is a language for defining data and not visual presentation. In addition to that, having a mixed html, with errors and/or not being semantic, compromises accessibility to people with problems (you want to discriminate them?) usability and gets you a complicated scenario for future updates.

    3) Visual presentation is made by external CSS.

    4)  Moreover, the design view isn't any good even to test the "output" since it renders partially and with IE engine that we all know isn't the choiche for testing (you test on a standard compliant browser then fix for IE).

     

    As you can see I only stated "facts" with no personal judgment in it. These facts are hardly arguable. As official standards, as long as they are, are not arguable.

    I just want you to understand that I am not the kind of person that you think. I study a scenario, get the facts and act accordingly. I see nothing wrong in it.

    Matteo Mosca
    Web Developer
    IWA Member
  • Re: Visual Web Developer Design View Still Slow!!!!!! Hotfix KB946581 Does Nothing! HELLLPPPPPP!!!!!!

    07-23-2008, 10:33 AM
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    • Naom
    • Joined on 12-31-2007, 2:08 PM
    • New York
    • Posts 605

    I think the main point is that VS 2008 (2005) IDE is rich, but the developer pays the price of slowness. I have problems making changes in long ASPX files in Source view as well.

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