I started to fix bugs that I seemed rather trivial to fix in the issue tracker. I thought I could use my knowledge in JavaScript and Ajax and help out and so I could learn the toolkit. As I started to look for more solvable bugs in the tracker, I started
to notice a trend. The bugs are never updated and users keep asking when it is going to be solved. There are bugs in the tracker that have user's waiting on a bug fix, there are people asking how can they get a submitted patch, and there is no responses from
anyone that seems to matter. Months later and the bugs are still open. Afterwhat I saw tonight, I now see why more and more people are talking about jQuery and Prototpye.js in the JScript section of the forum.
Yes it is open source the code is there so they can fix it, but I bet most of those people know little JavaScript so they are not able too!
So I started to poke around some more:
I see that the last release for the toolkit was back in Feb. and there seems to be no planned releases in the future. [5 months + for a release?]
Looking at the logs seems like there is some activity, but nothing that notifies the users that stuff is happening.
Looking at the 2 of the 3 blogs of the people running it seems like they are off in Silverlight land. [did they loose focus?]
The site's documentation is not updated that often.
Tons of open bugs since the project first came out , people saying they have fixes, but nothing was every done about it.
Seems to me that the project has lost focus and is going down hill. I would be scared if I was actually running this stuff in a production environment. Firefox 3 and IE 8 are coming out soon, are they going to break the controls? How about the newest webkit?
How about Opera support?
If the people that are running the project have lost interest is there a way to hand it off to other people that can bring life back into it? Does Microsoft care that this seems to be a failure compared to the other non Ajax based toolkits out there?
My current contract is about to expire and I am going to have some free development time opening up while I am looking for a new contracting gig. If I work on the Ajax Toolkit, am I wasting my time? Should I be donating my time to another open source project
that I know is actually going to be maintained? Hopefully the guys running it see this post.
As per our conversation last night, the following represents the use case where the calendar malfunctions, despite the z-index fix:
<%@ Page Language="C#" AutoEventWireup="true" CodeFile="test.aspx.cs" Inherits="test" %>
<%@ Register Assembly="AjaxControlToolkit" Namespace="AjaxControlToolkit" TagPrefix="cc1" %>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head runat="server">
<title>Untitled Page</title>
<style type="text/css">
/*
//enabled this to test use case #3.
*
{
position: relative;
}
//this should off-set the relative positioning, as these are the only elements explicitly positioned in the calendar. also part of use case #3.
.ajax__calendar
,.ajax__calendar_container
,.ajax__calendar_days
,.ajax__calendar_months
,.ajax__calendar_years
{
position: absolute;
}
*/
div.calendar_container
{
background-color: blue;
border: 1px solid black;
height: 50px;
margin-bottom: 10px;
}
div.calendar_ok
{
background-color: green;
border: 1px solid black;
height: 50px;
margin-bottom: 10px;
color: white;
}
div.calendar_warning
{
position: relative;
background-color: orange;
border: 1px solid black;
height: 50px;
margin-bottom: 10px;
color: white;
}
div.calendar_broken
{
position: relative;
background-color: red;
border: 1px solid black;
height: 50px;
margin-bottom: 10px;
color: white;
}
/*
// enable this to test use case #2
.ajax__calendar
,.ajax__calendar *
{
z-index: 10000000 !important;
}
*/
</style>
</head>
<body>
<form id="form1" runat="server">
<asp:ScriptManager
ID="ScriptManager1"
runat="server"
/>
<div>
<div class="calendar_container">
<asp:TextBox
ID="TextBox1"
runat="server"
/>
<cc1:CalendarExtender
ID="CalendarExtender1"
runat="server"
TargetControlID="TextBox1"
/>
</div>
<div class="calendar_ok">
Use Case #1: The calendar will display over this section. This works only so-long as the CSS position is static (or not specified, which implies static).
</div>
<div class="calendar_container">
<asp:TextBox
ID="TextBox2"
runat="server"
/>
<cc1:CalendarExtender
ID="CalendarExtender2"
runat="server"
TargetControlID="TextBox2"
/>
</div>
<div class="calendar_warning">
Use Case #2: The calendar will <strong>NOT</strong> display over this section. The calendar will not display over elements that are fixed, absolute, or relative. Note: applying the z-index fix will enable this to work. (But it doesn't work "out of the box".)
</div>
<div class="calendar_container">
<asp:TextBox
ID="TextBox3"
runat="server"
/>
<cc1:CalendarExtender
ID="CalendarExtender3"
runat="server"
TargetControlID="TextBox3"
/>
</div>
<div class="calendar_broken">
Use Case #3: The calendar will <strong>NOT</strong> display over this section, unless z-index fix is enabled. It will also not display over this element if positioning is globaly set for all elements as relative.
</div>
</div>
</form>
</body>
</html>
Let me first apologize about the lack of recent activity. We're in the process of changing lots of things in the way the project is managed and updated, but I want to make it clear that this goes in the direction of more support and more updates. Everything
is getting into place but it takes time and we thank you for your patience.
Bertrand
Bertrand
----
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
good to see a reply from a insider. Do you have an idea, with keeping in mind the changes you are performing in the way the project is managed, on when we can expect a new release? The next release indicated by the issue tracker was planned on 29th of last
may, but this unfortunately was not made.
We are using the AjaxControlToolkit very much, so it would be pretty important for us.
Yes, we need a little more time to finish work on the new MultiHandleSlider control, which I'm hoping will be done by next week. Then, I'll be able to publish the new release.
The release after that one will contain a number of platform-wide improvements in terms of performance and client-side programmability, I'm hoping in September.
Bertrand
----
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
A1ien51
All-Star
29503 Points
5718 Posts
Is the Ajax Toolkit Dead in the water?
Jul 01, 2008 05:04 AM|LINK
I started to fix bugs that I seemed rather trivial to fix in the issue tracker. I thought I could use my knowledge in JavaScript and Ajax and help out and so I could learn the toolkit. As I started to look for more solvable bugs in the tracker, I started to notice a trend. The bugs are never updated and users keep asking when it is going to be solved. There are bugs in the tracker that have user's waiting on a bug fix, there are people asking how can they get a submitted patch, and there is no responses from anyone that seems to matter. Months later and the bugs are still open. Afterwhat I saw tonight, I now see why more and more people are talking about jQuery and Prototpye.js in the JScript section of the forum.
Yes it is open source the code is there so they can fix it, but I bet most of those people know little JavaScript so they are not able too!
So I started to poke around some more:
Seems to me that the project has lost focus and is going down hill. I would be scared if I was actually running this stuff in a production environment. Firefox 3 and IE 8 are coming out soon, are they going to break the controls? How about the newest webkit? How about Opera support?
If the people that are running the project have lost interest is there a way to hand it off to other people that can bring life back into it? Does Microsoft care that this seems to be a failure compared to the other non Ajax based toolkits out there?
My current contract is about to expire and I am going to have some free development time opening up while I am looking for a new contracting gig. If I work on the Ajax Toolkit, am I wasting my time? Should I be donating my time to another open source project that I know is actually going to be maintained? Hopefully the guys running it see this post.
Regards,
Eric Pascarello
kipo
All-Star
16017 Points
2734 Posts
Re: Is the Ajax Toolkit Dead in the water?
Jul 01, 2008 07:06 AM|LINK
This is very interesting topic and I would really like to hear answers from AJAX insiders.
miggl
Member
35 Points
99 Posts
Re: Is the Ajax Toolkit Dead in the water?
Jul 01, 2008 03:29 PM|LINK
Hi Eric,
As per our conversation last night, the following represents the use case where the calendar malfunctions, despite the z-index fix:
<%@ Page Language="C#" AutoEventWireup="true" CodeFile="test.aspx.cs" Inherits="test" %> <%@ Register Assembly="AjaxControlToolkit" Namespace="AjaxControlToolkit" TagPrefix="cc1" %> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"> <head runat="server"> <title>Untitled Page</title> <style type="text/css"> /* //enabled this to test use case #3. * { position: relative; } //this should off-set the relative positioning, as these are the only elements explicitly positioned in the calendar. also part of use case #3. .ajax__calendar ,.ajax__calendar_container ,.ajax__calendar_days ,.ajax__calendar_months ,.ajax__calendar_years { position: absolute; } */ div.calendar_container { background-color: blue; border: 1px solid black; height: 50px; margin-bottom: 10px; } div.calendar_ok { background-color: green; border: 1px solid black; height: 50px; margin-bottom: 10px; color: white; } div.calendar_warning { position: relative; background-color: orange; border: 1px solid black; height: 50px; margin-bottom: 10px; color: white; } div.calendar_broken { position: relative; background-color: red; border: 1px solid black; height: 50px; margin-bottom: 10px; color: white; } /* // enable this to test use case #2 .ajax__calendar ,.ajax__calendar * { z-index: 10000000 !important; } */ </style> </head> <body> <form id="form1" runat="server"> <asp:ScriptManager ID="ScriptManager1" runat="server" /> <div> <div class="calendar_container"> <asp:TextBox ID="TextBox1" runat="server" /> <cc1:CalendarExtender ID="CalendarExtender1" runat="server" TargetControlID="TextBox1" /> </div> <div class="calendar_ok"> Use Case #1: The calendar will display over this section. This works only so-long as the CSS position is static (or not specified, which implies static). </div> <div class="calendar_container"> <asp:TextBox ID="TextBox2" runat="server" /> <cc1:CalendarExtender ID="CalendarExtender2" runat="server" TargetControlID="TextBox2" /> </div> <div class="calendar_warning"> Use Case #2: The calendar will <strong>NOT</strong> display over this section. The calendar will not display over elements that are fixed, absolute, or relative. Note: applying the z-index fix will enable this to work. (But it doesn't work "out of the box".) </div> <div class="calendar_container"> <asp:TextBox ID="TextBox3" runat="server" /> <cc1:CalendarExtender ID="CalendarExtender3" runat="server" TargetControlID="TextBox3" /> </div> <div class="calendar_broken"> Use Case #3: The calendar will <strong>NOT</strong> display over this section, unless z-index fix is enabled. It will also not display over this element if positioning is globaly set for all elements as relative. </div> </div> </form> </body> </html>A1ien51
All-Star
29503 Points
5718 Posts
Re: Is the Ajax Toolkit Dead in the water?
Jul 01, 2008 03:45 PM|LINK
miggl,
I will look at it tongiht and see what the bug is.
Eric
bleroy
All-Star
15455 Points
2301 Posts
AspNetTeam
Microsoft
Re: Is the Ajax Toolkit Dead in the water?
Jul 01, 2008 06:03 PM|LINK
Hi,
Let me first apologize about the lack of recent activity. We're in the process of changing lots of things in the way the project is managed and updated, but I want to make it clear that this goes in the direction of more support and more updates. Everything is getting into place but it takes time and we thank you for your patience.
Bertrand
----
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
KoenWillemse
Member
8 Points
5 Posts
Re: Is the Ajax Toolkit Dead in the water?
Jul 02, 2008 05:53 AM|LINK
Hello Bertrand,
good to see a reply from a insider. Do you have an idea, with keeping in mind the changes you are performing in the way the project is managed, on when we can expect a new release? The next release indicated by the issue tracker was planned on 29th of last may, but this unfortunately was not made.
We are using the AjaxControlToolkit very much, so it would be pretty important for us.
Thanks,
Koen
bleroy
All-Star
15455 Points
2301 Posts
AspNetTeam
Microsoft
Re: Is the Ajax Toolkit Dead in the water?
Jul 02, 2008 06:47 AM|LINK
We want to make a release to go with .NET 3.5 SP1 end of July.
----
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
jus
Member
6 Points
4 Posts
Re: Is the Ajax Toolkit Dead in the water?
Aug 01, 2008 07:32 AM|LINK
Any updates on the release date?
Thanks
Jus
bleroy
All-Star
15455 Points
2301 Posts
AspNetTeam
Microsoft
Re: Is the Ajax Toolkit Dead in the water?
Aug 01, 2008 06:18 PM|LINK
Yes, we need a little more time to finish work on the new MultiHandleSlider control, which I'm hoping will be done by next week. Then, I'll be able to publish the new release.
The release after that one will contain a number of platform-wide improvements in terms of performance and client-side programmability, I'm hoping in September.
----
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
KristoferA
Member
691 Points
154 Posts
Re: Is the Ajax Toolkit Dead in the water?
Aug 03, 2008 06:31 AM|LINK
Besides the 'fix list' for the
2052920731209xx release on http://www.codeplex.com/AjaxControlToolkit/WorkItem/AdvancedList.aspx is there any place where I can see a summary of what features/fixes we can expect in the "I'm hoping in September" release?25 community fixes since February and no releases/no news from MSFT gives me the impression that MSFT have committed 0 developers to this project.
[parallell thread: http://forums.asp.net/t/1216410.aspx ]
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