My Thoughts

Last post 08-06-2007 1:06 PM by JoshStodola. 17 replies.

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  • Ick! [+o(] My Thoughts

    07-27-2007, 4:08 PM
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    • JoshStodola
    • Member since 01-16-2007, 9:17 AM
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    Well, it has been a while since I have been here, and little has changed.  I see you have opened the new design up for public review.  Something tells me that regardless of how the public reviews turn out, this beta design is going into production very soon.  But anyways, here is what I think about it...

    It sucks.  The front page appears to be an unorganized jumbled mess of portlets tattooed in light blue.  This layout and these colors make me feel blue.  More importantly, on a site such as this, the information needs to be well laid out and easily accessible.  It is clearly apparent that information architecture was not the focus of the redesign.  Example... Say I am a first time visitor and I want to get started learning ASP.NET.  I would likely be intrigued to click "Get Started".  Once it comes up, I get a very brief paragraph about the purpose of ASP.NET and then all of a sudden I am confronted with a list of example sites/companies using ASP.NET.  Now, I dont even know what the hell ASP.NET is and now you are telling me who is using it.  How does that help me get started?  It doesn't - it is completely irrelevant.  Hmmm, maybe I should click one of these links to learn more about how these companies are using it.  Whoops, now I am at the MySpace front page greeted by 3 script errors.  Thanks!

    This makes me wonder... what exactly was the focus of this redesign?  Can anybody answer this?  Stuff is harder to find than ever before, and the site flat-out looks bad, IMO.  Aesthetics have shamefully overridden usablity and I think the designer is to blame for this.  I wish you would have partnered with Happy Cog for a more ingenuity-based design.  Don't get the wrong idea - I don't have any problems with Goldman Design, in fact I have seen several of his sites that look great (IIS.net is spectacularly organized, for example).  I just don't think he applied enough of his talent towards this project.

    On a more positive note, the AJAX section looks much better than before and the content is laid out nicely.  You did a good job on this one.

    On a more negative note, continuously neglecting to correct this sites legendary search problem(s) makes you all look utterly foolish.  You are letting petty and subtle cosmetic enhancements supercede functionality, which is a disgrace and a disappointment to say the least.

    I am not a hater; I really would like this site to be perfect.  But I just don't understand some of your decisions.  So there you have it, my two cents.

    Josh Stodola ← Come check out my blog!
  • Re: My Thoughts

    07-27-2007, 6:11 PM
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    • TATWORTH
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    Perhaps the next version should feature a user-selectable colour scheme. 

    Don't forget to click "Mark as Answer" on the post that helped you.
    This credits that member, earns you a point and marks your thread as Resolved so we will all know you have been helped.
  • Re: My Thoughts

    07-30-2007, 11:45 AM
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    • MilanNegovan
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    I agree with Josh. The design of both the main ASP.NET site and the forums is aweful, IMO. Feels like a case of "design by committee". :( The color scheme, the cheesy icon theme, etc. The new AJAX site is visual cacophony.

    Milan Negovan [ASP.NET MVP]
    http://www.AspNetResources.com
    ASP.NET With Emphasis On Web Standards
  • Re: My Thoughts

    07-30-2007, 6:48 PM
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    • directed
    • Member since 12-28-2005, 10:21 PM
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     I agree...it's just a big mess at the moment. It looked alot better with the previous version. I don't know what really happened but you really made the site worse. Simplicity should be the keyword!

  • Re: My Thoughts

    07-31-2007, 10:24 AM
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    • JoshStodola
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    I admire your honesty, Milan.  It can't be easy for an ASP.NET MVP to publicly admit that.  Thanks!

    Josh Stodola ← Come check out my blog!
  • Re: My Thoughts

    07-31-2007, 10:44 AM
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    • MilanNegovan
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    Nah, it's actually easy because I'm merely stating my opinion. Big Smile Being an MVP doesn't confer on me any privileged or extra-special status, and neither does it bend MVPs to collusion. At least not the ones who value objectivity.

    Milan Negovan [ASP.NET MVP]
    http://www.AspNetResources.com
    ASP.NET With Emphasis On Web Standards
  • Re: My Thoughts

    07-31-2007, 11:33 AM
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    • JoshStodola
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    Exactly!  YesYes

    Thanks again...

    Josh Stodola ← Come check out my blog!
  • Re: My Thoughts

    07-31-2007, 7:11 PM
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    • vcsjones
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    I am not very pleased with the new design, myself. It is blue, but I wouldn't mind it if the redesign had a purpose. It seems to me, that the only clear motivation to change the old design was "it was old", and not serve some greater purpose such as improved functionality and organization. There was nothing wrong with the old design, in my opinion. I would have liked to see more user feedback considered, and some of it implemented as well.

    Cheers,
           Kevin Jones


  • Re: My Thoughts

    07-31-2007, 10:05 PM
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    • Nullable
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    The new design is a lot better than the old one... the sites you mentioned above stink (and look like crap)... the new site (especially the new front page) puts user content to the top (articles and blogs)... whereas the old site had a pretty static "Get Started" thing that wasn't doing much.

    I am glad that the two people who used the "IMO" acronym didn't use "IMHO"...

    Also, IIS.NET is very much more simplistic compared to ASP.NET (and doesn't have nearly as much user driven content).

    Oh, quick question... do you guys have websites? - I think we'd all love to see them :)

    -Timothy Khouri
    http://www.SingingEels.com/
    Developer / Architect / Author
  • Re: My Thoughts

    07-31-2007, 11:44 PM
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    • vcsjones
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    Nullable:
    Oh, quick question... do you guys have websites? - I think we'd all love to see them :)

    Nullable, we are not "bashing" the new design. We as members of the site share a concern. We all have our opinions. All of Josh's points are valid. The site is a little hard to navigate through, it is too blue IMHO IMO, and the search feature is useless. These are all valid concerns. However, your points are valid, too. The new design does have improvements, such as the user content up at the top; but it would be better if we had the best of both worlds.

    Cheers,
           Kevin Jones


  • Re: My Thoughts

    08-01-2007, 12:09 AM
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     >it would be better if we had the best of both worlds.

     I agree!

    Don't forget to click "Mark as Answer" on the post that helped you.
    This credits that member, earns you a point and marks your thread as Resolved so we will all know you have been helped.
  • Re: My Thoughts

    08-01-2007, 8:34 AM
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    • bullpit
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    vcsjones:
    All of Josh's points are valid

    Not all I must say. The Getting Started section is pretty good. Though the section has a brief introduction, it provides so many resources like books to read, videos, starter kits etc. Its everything about just getting started quickly. If the users want in depth material, hit the books.

    Josh- Can you please suggest what should be there instead?

    I agree that Search sucks and a color scheme personalization would be better. "IMO", I don't like too much of rounded corners in websites overall (not just this one, and this site happens to be all about it). I like more of flat designs, well...its IMO.

    I use other Micorsoft forums also, like this one: http://forums.microsoft.com/msdn/default.aspx, and the design and functionality is really good. For example, when I try create a new thread and write the subject line, it gives me all relevant threads before posting, and often times I find an answer in one of those posts.

    If this is "An Official Microsoft ASP.NET 2.0 Site", why doesn't it follow standards?

  • Re: My Thoughts

    08-01-2007, 1:20 PM
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    • JoshStodola
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    Nullable:
    the sites you mentioned above stink (and look like crap)
    Uhhh, what sites are you talking about?
    Nullable:
    I am glad that the two people who used the "IMO" acronym didn't use "IMHO"
    What Tim, you dont think I am being honest?! Nice ego you got there...
    Nullable:
    Also, IIS.NET is very much more simplistic compared to ASP.NET (and doesn't have nearly as much user driven content).
    Really? How do you figure that site to be "more simplistic" than this one? How would you define "simplistic"? It has plenty of content, although I would agree it doesn't get as much traffic as this one.
    Nullable:
    Oh, quick question... do you guys have websites? - I think we'd all love to see them :)
    Yeah, my blog will be done in about a week. I have a web site as well. I am no world class designer by any means, in fact, I am not very good at it period. That doesn't mean that I should never criticize other designs. Honest and constructive feedback is invaluable, no matter who it is coming from. You might think the new design is better, I don't care. That is your opinion, you are entitled to have it and I am entitled to disagree with it.

    Are you bothered by everything that does not mimic your personal outlook?

    Josh Stodola ← Come check out my blog!
  • Re: My Thoughts

    08-01-2007, 8:44 PM
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    Heh, always interesting...

    First - The site that I was talking about that looks ugly is www.happycog.com ... even though I have a link to A List Apart on my site (SingingEels), I don't think that their design looks all that great.

    Second - IMHO stands for "In My Humble Opinion"... I wasn't questioning your honesty :P

    Third - (talking the front pages only here) IIS.NET is more "simplistic" meaning... the front page has ONE content area... news... ASP.NET has Weblogs, articles, news, getting started etc.

    Fourth - I agree that everyone should contribute (constructively) to the community... even if that contribution is pointing out possible flaws for the sake of helping something grow (much like a gardener might trim off dead branches to encourage new growth)... but your initial post was basicaly "ZOMG teh SUUUUUCKS!!!" :)

    JoshStodola:
    Are you bothered by everything that does not mimic your personal outlook?
    - I don't use Outlook... I use Thunderbird... (just kidding - I think my answers to your questions above answer this question as well)

    -Timothy Khouri
    http://www.SingingEels.com/
    Developer / Architect / Author
  • Re: My Thoughts

    08-02-2007, 10:08 AM
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    Nullable:
    but your initial post was basicaly "ZOMG teh SUUUUUCKS!!!"

    Hmm, I thought I did a pretty good job of keeping my initial post constructive Confused

    Josh Stodola ← Come check out my blog!
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