Last post Jul 29, 2009 01:43 AM by luker459
Jul 01, 2006 04:28 PM|misuk11|LINK
Jul 03, 2006 05:18 PM|PLBlum|LINK
As the author of third party validation controls, I have to develop compatibility with the various suites out there. I have found the following about Telerik:
* They are the most popular suite product used by my customers... by far.
* They are excellent in their tech support responsiveness and content of their responses.
* They try to be up-front about their developments and problems.
* They respond to bugs very quickly.
* They make it easy for you to offer suggestions and concerns. You will usually get a thoughtful response so you know that they are listening.
* The one criticism, and this is a common one, is that their documentation falls short.
Jul 07, 2006 07:42 PM|kkfrost|LINK
Just getting ready to post this thread myself. Question to poster, are you using the lastest version of Netadvantage 2006 V2. I downloaded the demo. Haven't had much time to play with it but the tabs look pretty decent. I like the scheduling piece. Of
course I haven't gotten into layout that much so I'm curious if you are using their latest version.
Looks like they have some documentation and I like the way they have preset style sheets and images to where you can layout a control without having to create images, layout the style for simple stuff.
My hold ups, Telerik doesn't give you source unless you buy 5 user licenses. 1 license is expensive enough and I'd hate to have a situation where they went out of business and my company having rolled out many apps with their controls.
I've tried calling sales and haven't gotten an answer. I left a vmail 30 minutes ago so that kind of worries, if a company won't even answer sales calls makes me worry about support. But looks like the reponse here is that they are good.
I'm trying to play with each product as I have time, but I'd really love to hear other feedback on both of these products or even other competitive products.
Jul 07, 2006 09:23 PM|kkfrost|LINK
Could you also specify the level of support you have. For like $249 you can get priority support with like 24 hour turn around or instant messaging.
Also, I would have to say I called into sales and they at least answered the phone. I'm not advocating NetAdvantage because I honestly haven't made up my mind.
The big thing about them is source code. Telerik is 3 years old and if you don't by 5 user licenses, you don't get source which again scares me if they go belly up.
Please anybody else provide feedback. I'm still on the fence.
Jul 10, 2006 02:35 PM|ilyabutorine|LINK
Jul 10, 2006 03:14 PM|kkfrost|LINK
I'm definitely open to looking at other products. But time is important and those two at least appear to have taken enough time to put together thorough websites to display their products, list pricing etc. obout, to me the site is a little lacking. I
don't really see examples in real world that would make me believe the product is robust. There is no pricing I see on the website or at least if there is it's somewhere that I'm not going to take in more time in trying to find it.
Plus, where is your grid control? That's really the most important thing and also, where are examples of how to subcategorize info in a grid, how to use a combo to display a drop down grid, calendar etc. I'm not bashing your product but you asked about
other sites and the others I have looked at are about the same quality and that's what's got me down to telerik and Netadvantage. I don't have all day everyday to go through a bunch of stuff. Right now these products do what I need, I'm just concerned about
solid performance, tech support types of stuff right now unless there is another product that gives me as much or more. The tools contain as many menu that make configuration a snap and then at a better price. (That in my opinion is where these two are vulnerable
but the reason for the thread, I'm still waiting on feedback from others to factor in with my decision.)
I'm open to others and I appreciate the link but what I've seen wouldn't entice me to spend any more of my time considering obout as an option compared to either Telerik or NetAdvantage.
Jul 10, 2006 03:26 PM|ilyabutorine|LINK
Jul 10, 2006 04:32 PM|kkfrost|LINK
You are correct, image I guess is a part of it. But what I'm trying to say. I don't want to spend any more time than I need to trying to find a good product. What the sites give me is since they have a good variety of working examples, I can look at them
and say to myself, ok I run into situations to where that would be helpful, this would be helpful, that would be helpful etc. Now the next phase is whether they're support is helpful enough to where if I need to have an overlay grid display from a button
in a column. How painful is it for me to learn or will their support respond and have me going in a couple or hours. Or do I have to waste 2 weeks of my time trying to figure out how to do one thing. If the latter, when I'm already learning, Project 2003,
CRM 3.0, their SDK's, SBA, etc,etc, you get the picture.
Again, thanks for the response and I'll keep you on a list for future reference.
Jul 10, 2006 06:25 PM|nokiko|LINK
Well I have used both Telrik components and infragistics components in several projects But Since beginning of the year we switched everything over to telerik components.
Ofcourse the valid html and acessibillity of the components is a real plus for the Telerik components. Especially I f you have some governments clients. They ensist on the features.
Funbctionality wise both telerik and infragistics can help you develop advanced web applications on short periods of time.
Support of the Telerik compnents are by far the most superior. There is a great support community through forums and If you cannot find a solution there the Telerik support people are always very fast and supportive with code samples complete test applications
or in one of my cases a temporary inbetween bugfix build to help me deliver my app on time. As for Infragistics I had to wait up to a week for soem sort of support.
I have seen numerous of my feature suggestion been included in smaller or bigger updates, this is a real pro. They realy seem to listen to there customers.
Infragistics was always very heavy in the use of too much html nested tables inline scripts and more. Telerik components also started out that way in the beginning but they got cleaner and cleaner semanticaly correct, there are stil some table based components
but no more heavy nested table structures with much better use of css.
Version conflicts, updating older apps that used old Infragitiscs components was a real nightmare, missing functions changed functions missing functionalities other html code generation. I had these with Telerik as well but much less severe and better documented.
Changing designs of controls through templates or themes is much better supported in the telerik components. Either base on an internal template system or cmpletely through css.
And the thing I like best is the cleintside functionality, almost every serverside functionality has a cleintside version as well, so if there is no need for a post or callback you dont have to it.
Jul 11, 2006 10:11 AM|plompd|LINK
I'm also recommending the Telerik r.a.d.controls suite. When you have this license you can use all of the controls from the suite: 17 in total! Plus almost every year controls are beeing added to the suite.
Of course you can buy them seperate.
The support is very good. Always an answer to you questions and a great forum with lots of users that can/will help you if you're stuck with a specific solutions.
The controls are very easy to deploy (not with Infragistics) and easy to develop. Easy to setup and configure using the VS2005 designer functionality.
So, if you want some great controls with great support (if needed) then go for the Telerik Suite. You can always download a trial for your local domain!
Jul 11, 2006 12:38 PM|kkfrost|LINK
Can you please specify which versions of each companies suites you are using? I want to make sure the comments pertain to the latest versions from each company. I have downloaded demos from each. They both come in suites. For me, the scheduling piece
from NetAdvantage if it works well would help with one business solution. I found NetAdvantage very easy to install with VS 2005.
As far as setting up controls. At least with the panelgrid, I would have to hands down give the nod to netadvantage for ease of use and getting the control figured nicely with the least amount of effort. Still haven't figured out how to get the telerik's
to display the way I want them. Submitted a support incident on this to test their support.
I think Telerik is a good product but after testing the latest demo's the comments about the two products don't seem to fit. I'm not knocking either one but I'd have to say with the scheduling piece and the source code available with any type of license,
if support were decent I probably would go with NetAdvantage because of the scheduling piece and how easy it is to configure the controls or at least the ones I've messsed with.
Of course I would give the nod to customer concern to telerik so far. Talking to their sales, they were more eager in things like extending the trial period if need be and a couple of other things to try and earn my business. NetAdvantage was ok but more
rigid with take it or leave it type of attitude which isn't necessarily bad.
I guess, testing the support of each company is the next thing to do. If everyone could please verify that they are talking about the latest versions of the suites from both companies. From what I gather in the past it definitely sounds like Telerik had
the upper hand but I'm still curious as to whether the Netadvantage suite has closed the gap in the latest release?
Thanks again to all.
Jul 17, 2006 09:57 PM|kkfrost|LINK
I've been working on this for the past couple of weeks. With the comments on here I was all but ready to purchase Telerik but for as much money as each of these products charge, I thought it would be worth the time investigating into the products and more
importantly the companies.
Please note I'm basis this off the latest 06 V2 versions of these products released in June 06.
First I read that telerik was much easier to configure, setup and deploy and I wanted to believe it but to me there is no comparision. NetAdvantage for me was the easiest hand's down. I got an error trying to run a page with a control after the initial
install but easy to follow help told me to create a virtual directory on the dev machine and how to copy the dll's to the bin directory when publishing to a production machine.
Next my little test I was going to setup a page with a menu, toolbar, panelbar, A combo box and a grid. I created a master page and did a simple layout. I put the menu, tool bar and panel bar on the master page. All it has is some links and a panel with
A link in the panel bar when clicked would open another page that would have a combo box for users to select a customer and when selected it would open up a simple hiearchial grid. One of the caveats for the rows in the master grid, I need a column that
had a combo in it that when clicked would use the ID from the current row go out and get Project manager info and populate an overlay grid to display and be editable.
Finally when a row in the detail table was clicked, have a new grid show with details about that record.
In about an hour I was able to get most of what I wanted accomplished with the Netadvantage suite. With Telerik I ran into a problem with themes controls being on a master page etc that I don't care to go into all the details about but bottom line over
a week, about separate emails back and forth with Telerik and several phone calls to sales guy who brought in some manager and I still don't have a sample of what i thought would be fairly simple.
Again with NA, I've gotten about 85% accomplished with the NA suite. The rest I'm using as an opportunity to test Infragistics support.
Keep in mind I wear a lot of different hats and for me to spend $1000 on products such as these, I want the granualrity to be able to do anything I want with the controls. At the same time, if I want to put a simple panel bar, toolbar on a master page,
set a style, I want to be able to do it with a few clicks of a button. I want to have a hiearchial grid, instead of having to type 30 lines of source, it's nice to pass multiple tables in a dataset, set a relation and bind it to the grid and be done. Net
Advantage gives me that. Telerik from what I can see is far from it.
On the flip side. With what I have gotten to work with Telerik, when I got to the same stage with NA controls, I opened the web pages the html sent by telerik was less that that sent by NA. But I haven't played with the product enough to see if there are
default functionalities in the controls I should turn off in NA that would prevent some of this.
Source code is another big issue here because if these companies ever go belly up, it would be imperative to at the very least have the source code to handle problems and not just get totally buried. Telerik you have to buy 5 licenses and NA comes with
a single license. (I will say Telerik has offered to throw source in if I go with their product.)
Support, again, I'm not sure the claims here but I've called Infragistics line 3 times and all three times I get a person to talk to. Telerik, I think they have one or two persons in an office in Ma as a front to try and show a US presence but everything
is in Belarus.
Also, email support is pretty much it. Reponse times I've had ranged in the 1/2 day to couple day range. In my issues I stepped up the heat in my responses to try and similuate a real live production problem to see if I would get an escalation and finally
phone time since email was going no where. Letting them know your dissatifaction with their support got me a "quick note" to show respect or maybe I should go with Infragistics if I didn't like the way things were being handled.
Not sure a phone call with a live person would do much good because of language barriers or at least with the escalation manager that got on the phone and was going to "make this all right".
Infragistics I can opt to go with priority support that gives me instant message or phone support and in my eye, email will not cut it if I'm in a server down type of situation with one of my customers because of one of these products.
Which brings me to one of my final thoughts. I have no problems buying products from any country. In fact I think it's good for us as consumers. The only problem I have is a company that is based in a country where they pay employees pennies on the dollar
to what a company has to pay developers in the US. Now maybe Netadvantage is a front and all their work is offshored as well but at least their presence in the us is staffed to answer my calls and support me with professionals which I can easily communicate
with. Not a prejudice type of thing but it's very frustrating being in a pressure cooker and having to focusing more on trying to understand the person you're working with versus the problem at hand.
In closing, there is no intention advocating either company over the other. Actually, I still haven't written off Telerik because mainly of what I saw in the html code test I mentioned. (Still sorting through it.) Plus I've only dealt with customer service
at Infragistics and I've submitted a request with two problems to resolve and I'm reserving judgement on their support and to make my final decision when finishes up.
The point of my post here is to try to share my experiences and hopefully helps others that were in my shoes a couple of weeks ago. Also, partly I was all ready and excited to go with Telerik based on comments read here but in actually testing the products
up until now, personally I've found most of the comments to be completely the opposite.
Please others with more experience with the latest products from each company, please post your opinions as well because as I mentioned I haven't totally decided on which one to go with yet but based on the reasons I've seen so far to go with telerik as
mentioned the complete opposite has been true in my experience.
Jul 19, 2006 03:32 AM|kkfrost|LINK
wanted to add a revision, Telerik has been getting back with me and trying to get a sample I'm looking for. I felt like I needed to add that I'm sure they process request for potential customers like mine when they have time and focus more on existing customer.
I really think they try but for me I'm just scared because situations we get into email support only is not good enough.
But I will say, I submitted the same request to Infragistics on Sat. Today I was thinking their support was going to be lacking as mentioned here but actually the problem was their response went to my junk email so their support responded in a day with
a sample and I'm not a paying customer. Been a busy day and haven't had time to go through the sample to see how much effort they put into helping but the response delays others mentioned, I wish you guys would post more details about the situation. Also
what type of support agreement you had. The priority support agreement or incidents you can get immediate support.
Having said that, either company would probably be a good choice. There are things such as methods of support, ease of use etc. With some controls that aren't as simple to configure as I would have though for somebody who has never used them I would have
thought would have been better. But telerik admitted it and a couple of other controls are dated and are expected to be a lot more robust.
More later if I run across it.
Jul 21, 2006 02:47 PM|kkfrost|LINK
Need to make a correction or two. Telerik is based in Bulgaria not Belarus. I'm not sure what labor rates there. Plus the CEO took the time to respond to me about their investments etc so now I'm comfortable with the company on that front. (Understand
most reading could give 2 cents for my thoughts on that but I posted comments that it was a factor so now I've been educated I just want to reflect it in the same post.)
My complaints about email support being the only avenue it appears will be a short lived concern. It appears they are working on opening a US support center.
Also, concerns about not getting source code under 5 users license according to Telerik will be addressed as well.
Also, to be fair, I haven't spent a penny on the product and after voicing my concern they have stepped it and got me pretty much what I was looking for and answered a lot of questions the didn't have to.
With those comments out of the way some follow up comments about the actual product.
In my opinion for configuring controls I think NA has an advantage here in simplicity and ease if you using a Smart Tag window for the configuration. One example is the panel bar. (Telerik informed me they are working on this.) If you live in the source
page of the web forms, this won't be much to think about for you.
Rolling out the controls appears to pretty much a toss up between both the new products.
The scheduling piece, even though I haven't tested it seems as if it could have some promise in certain situations.
Like the combo boxes already having the grids as drop downs.
Like the easy setup of using a template for a edit window in the grids.
Like the progress control.
Although I have spent much time looking at it, as it appears they send less html to the client.
The Ajax control concept. (Haven't tested it but like the concept.)
I may be mistaken but I think all Telerik's controls have their own dll's and do not use and shared ones which to me and I think somebody mentioned earlier, this to me would be more ideal in upgrade situations.
Instead of going on, I'm just going to sum my thoughts up and make a suggestion to both Telerik and NetAdvantage. My experience over the past two weeks, I going with either of the products you would be ok. I've had good experience with support and customer
service from both companies.
If you're looking for a product, figure out what's important to you, use the thread as a base and call the companies because both seem eager to please.
For anybody at Telerik or NetAdvantage that may be still looking at this page. You guys seem to actually have a friendly competition. One way that might benefit new customers such as myself in the future, what about doing up a friendly product comparisons
page on your web site. Tell us what you think makes your product better than your competitors.
Would help us the customers and also I'm sure it would stoke the competitvie juices of your internal staff trying to get them to one up each other.
I for one would not hesitate going with either product. For me I'm going to lay out some interfaces and see which one lets me do what I need to the most efficient at the same time not sacrificing performance in the end result. If everything is equal, then
look at the entire suite and see which has what I think will be most relevant to what I'll be doing.
If still relelatively equal, then I guess I'll resort to the trusty coin flip.
Jul 28, 2006 09:48 PM|kkfrost|LINK
I finally ended up going with Telerik. They have addressed all my concerns/complaints and in some case b!tch!ng. :)
What ended up interesting me the most is the amount of html the pages I created using their controls generated over the others.
Plus as I mentioned, I think they need some form of IM or phone support for emergency type situations which they've said they are diligently are working on. I'd have to say their interest in me as a customer is about the best I've ever had. And trust me
I'm hard to please. Like the rest of us they have some areas with room for improvement, but I doubt you'll find another company as interested in trying to please everbody and make you as happy as a customer they appear to be committed to doing.
Jul 29, 2006 10:51 AM|plompd|LINK
Good choice. I hope you will like the controls and I'm sure you will not be dissapointed regarding the support, as you said :)
Jul 29, 2006 11:15 PM|lpartan|LINK
Aug 20, 2006 07:28 AM|asbuilts|LINK
Thanks for journaling your research!. I started down this path yesterday by pouring over the web sites. Now I have gotten to the point of
getting ready to download the demos and start working on them. You have really provided some valuable insight into making the decision.
Aug 26, 2006 11:37 PM|rtortima|LINK
Why dont we add DevExpress AspxGrid & controls to this evaluation? I would bet it beats Infragistics and Telerik all at once!
Aug 27, 2006 06:56 PM|kkfrost|LINK
That's fine to add other products to the thread, but the people that have posted for the most part have spent some time explaining reasoning behind why they would or wouldn't use something. What you've posted really doesn't intrigue me to look at them as
a casual reader of the thread.
Trying to browse their website, appears they have a grid, menu and navigational stuff. But I don't see how it compares to the others. The topic for Infragistics and Teleriks are for suites that have built in capalities to handle client side stuff for
you without you having to know much about it. Plus Telerik has the Ajax Manager and some other things, I don't see Devexpress offer.
Devexpress offers client side integration but you can get that with the regular gridview so why pay an extra $250 for it and clutter you project with extra dll, file maintenance or whatever it is they do to allow you to integrate their controls. Personally,
if find myself trying to use the built in controls that ship with Visual Studio over 3rd party stuff unless it just makes something a lot easier for me or provides me something that I can't do in the built in stuff. And actually now that I've started reading
about what all you can do with the built in gridview, I just use the third party skins and images here and there to save myself from having to come up with those because as mentioned I have several dev environment and we do custom work for numerous customer.
I see this 3rd party stuff rapidly evoling into a windows like "dll hell" trying to manage all the hotfixes, updates etc.
I will say I'm liking the Ajax Manager so far with Teleric and how it keeps me from having to do anything to control full postbacks with minimal effort.
Having said that, I'm not degrading Devexpress because I've never used it but at first glance they don't look like they have a full comparative suite to the companies listed in this thread. But if you make a claim such as you did, explain why the product
is so much better. Also, provide some insite about the company in regards to some things about their support etc and let us know why we should consider them.
Aug 27, 2006 07:26 PM|rtortima|LINK
First sorry for the way I put things. It did look like I was degrading Infragistics and Telerik and put DevExpress as the super and supreme suite ever. I didnt mean to do that, its just that I do think some of their products are gorgeous. I have tested exauslty
XtraReports and AspxGrid (and some of other controls) from them. The first one (Reports) has a lot of incredible builtin features (e.g. end user can even design his own reports in a very friendly way) and is very easy to start using it (either with 2003
or 2005) in such a way I have really put my Crystal.NET aside and started only using it. The AspXGrid they offer is great, is easy to use and quick in rendering (whether in server or client mode) on page. When it comes to grids, I have tested Infragistics
and Telerik, thay are also cool, but I had some problems as described below:
- Infragistics and Telerik have a tremendous delay to in the process of rendering groups, sometimes it took minutes to do it (I am talking about a set of 500 or 600 records);
- I posted some questions in Telerik site, havent got an answer yet...
- Telerik gives their source code only if you buy 5 licenses, DevExpress grid's source code comes with its first license...
- I have seen (in a lot of other sites) a lot of people complaining about Infragistics support...
- None of them actually works with Atlas (DevExpress doesnt either), it uses its own Ajax routines...I ve seen Telerik is working with it, but I tested to mix and got some problems...
Again, sorry for the way I put my post, I didnt mean to be unpolite, I was just trying to include an option I consider a good one.
Aug 27, 2006 09:17 PM|kkfrost|LINK
No need to apologize, I didn't take what you said as a knock against Telerik or Infragistics. I'm not a spokesman for them and if I find a problem with them I'll be the first to criticize as well. The only point I was trying to make is if somebody posts,
it would be great to they will provide info to back their claims is all and I appreciate you taking the time to do so. The problem now a days is everybody claims they have the greatest products ever made, the problem is you don't really figure out what you're
buying until you've spent the money and went through the trials and tribulations. More times than not I find I get crappy stuff and waste a lot of time so hopefully, this thread will help everybody save some time. As an FYI about telerik's source code, they
will be including it with any of their subscriptions shortly if they are not already doing so.
So definitely wasn't criticizing just asking for some substance and thank you very much for providing that. :)
Nov 14, 2006 04:59 PM|BitShift|LINK
Does anyone use the Telerik set of controls ? Ive been using Infragistics for a while and to be honest theyre rubbish ! The visual designers dont work properly, setting layouts causes endless problems. Ive spent hours trying to figure out why when I set
a tab control layout in designer, it appears completely differently at runtime. I have to wait days for answers to problems, when they issue updates, this causes existing fuinctioality to break, the list goes on and on. Im thinking of buying the Telerik
set, has anyone used them ?
I just found this thread with a search of "infragistics vs telerik" and ive been in the same boat.
Ive been using the telerik controls now for the past week or so. First impression is very positive - good support via message forums and email, VERY good documentation and the control set seems easy to use and write code against. They work smooth at runtime
and do what the documentation says they do. Today I downloaded Infragistics. First thing i noticed was the sparse documentation and there were no "how-to's" for developers. Then, their ajax support is an "add on" / beta which they dont provide developer
Nov 23, 2006 06:23 AM|falconsoft|LINK
I need to make the same decision- Telerik or Infragistics and found this thread to be quite useful. You have very painstakingly put down things in detail.
Can you share your present experience- I mean, after using Telerik were you able to build the web application you wanted? Do you yet think it was the right choice?
Their current version is RadControls Q3 2006 SP2. Are you using the same one?
Nov 23, 2006 04:11 PM|kkfrost|LINK
Yes I'm using the Q3 2006 product. My thoughts on the controls are a couple.
1) Most important thing I would consider is your support needs. Telerik has a great group of personnel and will answer just about anything to help you out. But the biggest thing is their turn around time. If you can live with email support with a 24
hour turn around time, then there won't be a concern there. One thing I will add, because email can be a painstaking vehicle when you're in a crunch, I find it actually takes two or three times to get the right answer. Not by any fault of Telerik's support
capabilities but more so the fact of the time difference and it's hard to sometimes to get on the same page in email the first try.
If you send something at 5pm est then you get a response early the next morning and if you and the person responding aren't on the same page, then it'll be at least another day because of the time difference. However, if you change your work schedule and
interface at say 5 am est, if they aren't busy you'll have a couple of hours to go back and forth. They had mentioned they were working on IM and phone support for US hours so if they get that ironned out, I think it would be tremendous.
2) I'm starting to warm up to the Ajax Manager. I haven't gotten into any really cutting edge scenarios with it but would have to say so far it works as advertised. I like the Rad:Grid as well as the combo box. I've started playing with the tabstrip
and am pleased.
I am starting a contract with a company that uses the controls extensively. I haven't verified but two concerns they've ran across are the size the viewstate gets when using the controls as well as the way "ajaxifications" send the entire view state back
and forth across the wire which as you can imagine can tie into performance issues in certain scenarios. (To Telerik's credit, I'm not sure Atlas does things any different. Can't speak for Infragistics)
3) This is not just telerik but any third party controls. I'm not too sure I'm fond of the quarterly roll outs in my field because I work with a lot of different customers. So as the amount of customers grow, maintaining another set of files on servers
is just an added burden. I find that my mentality for the most part is to try and figure out a way to use a built in asp:net control first and then if I come into something challenging, I try to figure out which gives me the best avenue to acheive what I
want most efficiently. For example, if I need hiearchical grid, or a grid with a another control in a column, then I use the rad:grid. A combo box that uses type ahead rad. For basic stuff. asp.net.
4) Think about "Atlas", if you're just looking for a way to "ajaxify" things to my knowledge MS is supposed to be releasing ajax for asp.Net in the december time frame. In my opinion it will severly curb the price of all of these suites when they get competition
from a large mass produced product. When the competition stiffens in these arenas, I could really see these suites priced in the $200 price range but at that price, the support structure changed to where support calls are $50 a piece or something. (I don't
pretend to know the cost or the business processes of these companies, but when I can buy Visual Studio for the same price of one of these suites, personally I would get the same value for $799. Plus with atlas being free and once all these great savvy developers
start posting how to examples, things for these couple of companies I would imagine will have to change.)
In summary, I think the Telerik product is a good product and if you look at the examples on their website and by looking at them you think they will cover all your needs as well as you not ever having the need to have critical problems to where you need
a support contact on the phone, then go for it. Also,to me it seems a lot of Teleriks customers are businesses to where they are maintaining one or two web servers. So my comments of maintaining files wouldn't be that big of an issue. But if you are a independent
consultant with hundreds of different servers in different environments then you know what you're getting into with the maintenance.
They are really great to work with and are flexible so if you have concerns I will say with 100% confidence that they will work with you to try and accomodate your needs if anyway possible.
Hope that helps and good luck with your choice.
Nov 25, 2006 01:11 PM|falconsoft|LINK
Thanks for your detailed and helpful reply. Your comments in this forum thread have been very useful.
I am trying out Telerik currently (I spent 3-4 days on evaluating Infragistic too). I thought that I would make few sample pages and see for myself.
Regarding the viewstate- I found that many times for the controls we are not actually using ViewState and so can disable it. On disabling it, say for grid control, then the viewstate size reduces dramatically. I noticed this for Telerik and Infragistic for
the grid control samples. I have seen this for the html source coming to client- I am not sure whether this applies for the backend Ajax calls too. I am sure you would have already tried this.
I liked your suggestion of first trying to use the available ASP.NET controls and Atlas stuff and only if not available here use third-party controls. That seems to be the way to go. Thanks!
I will put by findings\experiences with Telerik in a few weeks.
Nov 25, 2006 02:13 PM|kkfrost|LINK
Good luck falconsoft. There is one caveat I wanted to reply in your response.
"I liked your suggestion of first trying to use the available ASP.NET controls and Atlas stuff"
I started looking into the Atlas stuff back in July. I purchased a book and started going through it. After a couple of hours it was clear that "Atlas" had changed quite a bit so I bagged it. With that said, I'm not sure I would use atlas controls in
production stuff until it releases. (Rumor has it sometime in Dec but I'm not sure.) For me I can't afford things to use things that i know before hand are going to change. So if you use atlas right now, understand it's beta and things could change and
break your existing code when the release comes out.
My suggestion for right now would be to look at it to see if might meet your needs because you can't be the price. :) Then if you aren't in a super hurry for a solution and can't wait a until the release then it may be a viable option.
Having said that I understand everybody's situations are different. If you work for a company and are dedicated to one large product that you get to focus on then the changes may not be as big a deal as they are for me.
Thanks for the posts. Also, as you mentioned please post your comments about the Telerik when you get the chance.
Nov 26, 2006 05:32 AM|PeterBrunone|LINK
3) This is not just telerik but any third party controls. I'm not too sure I'm fond of the quarterly roll outs in my field because I work with a lot of different customers. So as the amount of customers grow, maintaining another set of files on servers is
just an added burden.
As another third-party control vendor, I'm curious as to what exactly you're getting at here (good feedback is hard to find, and when I get it, I like to make sure I understand it). Forgive me if I'm just being dense -- it's been a long weekend -- but
would you mind unpacking this a bit?
Nov 26, 2006 01:34 PM|kkfrost|LINK
I'm an independent software consultant. When I purchase something I want it to be relatively stable and feature rich when I purchase it. The more customers you get the more websites you have to manage and maintain. Before the latest release with Telerik,
I believe you had to create a rad virtual directory for each project. They have addressed that but you still have the bin directories to contend with. I've got dev servers with 40 to 50 + different projects on them. Then the customers servers, it's not
ideal to have to change or upgrade every 3 months. Having said that hopefully the choice to upgrade is whether or not the new releases have functionality you may need. Which might not be as likely to lead you to have to upgrade everything.
Also, some of the fixes have been to copy this fix here, extract and copy the contents to this or that directory which isn't ideal.
What I'm getting at is the way these things are upgraded constantly and some times it's to fix bugs, it looks like it could turn into area to introduce a new "dll H*LL". With the built in Visual Studio controls, I think I've ran into a scenario to where
I had to roll out 1 hotfix and that wasn't control related it was a asp.net bug. (I'm sure others will chime in that they've had to do more.)
Again, to some extent upgrading and fixing is the nature of the business. Still doesn't mean I'm fond of introducing another element to my enviroments if I don't have too. Plus when you do consulting work customers pay you by the hour on, the small and
medium sized business don't take kindly sometimes paying you to do maintenance work, sure there are managed service contracts but still a lot do not like it. They don't want to pay you good money to write a product for them and then have to pay every 3 months
to upgrade it. (A lot won't so the 3 months upgrades sometimes you end up eating your of your own pocket if you want to keep the customer.) So it's another reason that I consider before rolling out a third party control. At present, I have them in 3 environments,
the others I make do with the built in stuff.
Also, in closing, I think this might should be a discussion for another thread. As I've mentioned previously, if you work for a large company where you might manage 3, 6 or 10 websites internally and your daily job is to solely focus on development in
the same areas, these things I've mentioned may not be a concern for you. I mention them not to start a debate but to make sure the persons reading this think about it and make the decision for themselves as to whether it might be an issue for them.
For me when consulting and one day Imight be creating a stand alone app, the next you're integrating with CRM, the next Project server, etc etc. So these third party controls for me I want to be elegant and simple to use. I don't want to spend 3 days in
documentation learning how to use them, if I do then I'll just figure out how to accomplish what I need with built in controls. Then as mentioned I don't want something that I have to upgrade every 3 months. Now if the controls come up with some method that
does automatic updates with rollback capabilities, then it's a different story. :) Or even automated installations that you can script to update dev machines as well as servers, it could be nicer but I don't see that from anybody.
If you have any more questions, please IM. I'd kind of like to keep this thread on the main topic if possible.
Nov 27, 2006 06:11 PM|PeterBrunone|LINK
Understandable. Sorry for pulling things off course, but when I read your previous post, I
had to ask for more details. Thank you for taking the time to explain; your concerns as laid out here are excellent material for any component discussion, and certainly valuable to this thread as well for anyone who hasn't delved that deeply
into the aforementioned product suites.
Dec 09, 2006 04:21 PM|EdBlankenship|LINK
I have been spending some time comparing the major component suites out there... I have a pretty extensive blog post already about this topic:
It should also be noted that if you are going to be selecting a component suite that you have to take into consideration other controls (like Windows Forms controls) that are included. Infragistics has always had Windows Forms controls and Telerik has just
released their new component suite product line... Just another consideration when making your evaluation if you will be doing other than ASP.NET development.
Mar 16, 2007 09:08 PM|s2k|LINK
How do the telerik controls compare to Infragistics in terms of web delpoyment, do they all support medium trust?
how much better telerik might be.
Jun 15, 2007 03:39 PM|rtortima|LINK
What about the devexpress suite for grids, menus, text and comboboxes? Have you ever tried one of those?
Might be a worthy experience to use some of these controls, specially the webgrid...though Telerik grid seems to work great as well, Dev grid looked even faster (might be luck or my local configuration :) )
May 12, 2008 07:52 PM|davidlars99|LINK
Here's my two cents...
Excel like Filtering
Not available in the current version we have
In Line Editing
Insert / Edit Templates
Infragistics Row Template looks good
Excel Copy paste
This features allows to directly Copy from Excel and paste in Grid
Row Auto Numbering and Re-numbering at Client Side
Fixed Add Row (Client Side)
Client Side Row Add
Difficult to Understand
Easy to Understand
Infragistics Minus Points
Infragistics doesn't have a splitter control.
Infragistics creates a ridiculous amount of code in HTML. For similar functionality, we might have a few hundred lines of extra code compared to Telerik.
Infragistics offers training classes to use their controls. If you need training to use these components, then you're in trouble!
Telerik Minus Points
Less features in some controls... Especially in Grid.
May 14, 2008 07:16 AM|dick_lampard|LINK
Dave, I think that your comparison table is rather outdated concerning the
Telerik part. I evaluated both vendors recently and although Telerik do not have clent-side insert/update (they have client delete though) or Excel copy/paste, I find their grid control much faster, robust and easy to be configured, yet with powerful features
(like detail templates or row drag and drop). Besides, their online demos/docs/kb articles are quite comprehensive and descriptive and judging from the activity in the public forums the support service supersedes Infragistics'. One more thing that I found
is Telerik has code library section on their site which is a valuable resource for custom solutions.
You may be interested in updating your table data or compare Infra and Telerik again.
Aug 25, 2008 04:25 PM|tymberwyld|LINK
Look, I will say this. I have used Telerik, Infragistics and even DevExpress for 5+ years. DevExpress by far is more stable and has a smaller footprint. It's unfortunate that a lot of these 3rd party controls still won't get away from rendering everything
in html tables (sure, for grids it's necessary). DevExpress does a lot of work for you, and if you happen to need to override it, they give more hooks into events than I have ever found from any 3rd party suite. There may be 1 or 2 controls which they don't
have (an AspxSplitter or Docking), but who really uses that stuff a lot? They constantly come out with more controls and have patches every 1 - 2 months so you always have bug fixes as fast as possible (and there is rarely an occasion where a work around
isn't possible). They're support is awesome as well as the community blogs. I have been using their recent version (8.2) for over a year and it's very nice! It definately a serious competitor to Telerik and Infragistics and I will probably stick with them.
Jul 29, 2009 01:43 AM|luker459|LINK
I have been using infragistics controls (NetAdvantage) for roughly 7 or 8 years (particularly the asp.net controls - we abandoned the ultrawingrid because it stopped supporting unbound mode).
My opinion of them is that they are absolute CRAP. I honestly dont know why people rank them so highly. They are completely full of bugs for starters. I couldnt possibly recommend them any less and the only reason we stay with them is because we dont want
to spend time redeveloping with new controls.
Their support is hopeless. Their controls are missing common sense functionality (the amount of times i've looked for an event and not found it, or done testing to establish under what circumstances it is raised and just thought to myself "You bunch of idiots.
Who designs this stuff?"). As it happens, right now i am trying in vain to get to the bottom of a weird bug. It happens intermittently by users of our side, and the stack trace indicates an error within some internal function of the webgrid control - but as
with infragistics support, unless you can provide a sample project to reproduce a bug then you're on your own.
I recently battled with memory issues because of an absolutely ridiculous design decision by infragistics (more details here
Quite honestly infragistics are the bane of my existence as a developer, and when the day comes where we can finally abandon them in favour of another supplier will be a truly great day.