Feedback on this website

Re: My Thoughts

JoshStodola — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 17:06:17 GMT

Nullable:
JoshStodola:
Something tells me that regardless of how the public reviews turn out, this beta design is going into production very soon.
- Completely negative and unconstructive. Please take your whining complaints elsewhere (or keep them to yourself).

Completely negative?! A whining complaint?! Get a grip...

Nullable:
JoshStodola:
It sucks.
- Completely negative and unconstructive... even you yourself say that some parts look "much better".

Yes, it was completely negative. Nevertheless, it was honest feedback (this is the feedback forum, not the positive feedback forum). I really thought it was a good way to start exposing my opinion. I was blunt and to the point, and then I explained why I felt that way. Sorry if my style of writing is just too much for you to handle.

Nullable:
JoshStodola:
The front page appears to be an unorganized jumbled mess
- The site starts with "Welcome" and "News" ... very typical and understandable.... then the next section down gets right into community content.

Your opinion is the only one that matters, so I am very sorry.

Nullable:
JoshStodola:
Whoops, now I am at the MySpace front page greeted by 3 script errors. Thanks!
- Blaming ASP.NET for script errors on MySpace... wow, that's constructive and relavent.

I wasn't blaming anybody for the errors, I was pointing out how the layout of information could negatively (and easily) influence a newbies initial opinion towards ASP.NET. "Start Learning ASP.NET" should be the first section on the "Get Started" page.

Nullable:
JoshStodola:
continuously neglecting to correct this sites legendary search problem(s) makes you all look utterly foolish
- Everyone will agree that the search feature needs work (even a lot of work).... but "makes you all look utterly foolish" - amazing.

The search problem is legendary, it has been a problem since the forums started. Those in charge decided to re-design this site and got started on it well over a year ago. With that said, they have willfully spent a significant amount of time attempting to enhance the cosmetics when they should have been perfecting the usability and functionality. To me, that makes no sense. Think about it, how many people do you think use the search feature every day. Probably thousands. And throughout the entire re-design, they absolutely had to be aware of the search problems. They chose to ignore them and focus on something painfully less-important. Amazing indeed.

Nullable:
I think I'm done with this thread... and while I don't think that this post will change the few people who are distinctively negative, I am posting it for the people who read posts like this one and need to know that if you needlessly bash things, you're not the cool guy :)

I am glad you are done with this thread, becuase you are adding no value to it. And don't worry, we all think you are the coolest guy around, Timothy. My advice is that you steer clear of the entire "Feedback on this Webiste" forum, because you are obviously overwhelmed by the slightest difference in opinion.

And just so you know, you have already publicly outted yourself as an ignorant individual in this thread by bad-mouthing Happy Cog. I guess you might not have realized that their web sites are designed and implemented by the most renowned and experienced legends of the web development industry. On your web site, you even religously preach about adhering to the standards they have put into place, and then you come here and say that they stink and their site looks like crap. Very admirable! Yeah, it is probably a good idea for you to be done with this thread before you further humiliate yourself.

Re: My Thoughts

Nullable — Sat, 04 Aug 2007 00:56:06 GMT

I was hoping that you would be able to re-read your post and realize "wow, that was needlessly negative and almost completely unconstructive"... but apparently not:

JoshStodola:
Something tells me that regardless of how the public reviews turn out, this beta design is going into production very soon.

- Completely negative and unconstructive. Please take your whining complaints elsewhere (or keep them to yourself).

JoshStodola:
It sucks.

- Completely negative and unconstructive... even you yourself say that some parts look "much better".

JoshStodola:
The front page appears to be an unorganized jumbled mess

- The site starts with "Welcome" and "News" ... very typical and understandable.... then the next section down gets right into community content.

JoshStodola:
It is clearly apparent that information architecture was not the focus of the redesign.

- Actually now there is an entire section dedicated to the "Community", the "information" sections that used to be at the bottom of the front page have been moved up into clear site without scrolling.

JoshStodola:
Example... Say I am a first time visitor and I want to get started learning ASP.NET. I would likely be intrigued to click "Get Started". Once it comes up, I get a very brief paragraph about the purpose of ASP.NET and then all of a sudden I am confronted with a list of example sites/companies using ASP.NET. Now, I dont even know what the hell ASP.NET is and now you are telling me who is using it. How does that help me get started? It doesn't - it is completely irrelevant.

- The "Learn ASP.NET" section is perfect... before someone takes is going to take the time to learn an entire language, it might be good to exaplain "Why ASP.NET" (and that is done by showing strong examples). The three sections are "Why ASP.NET", "Get ASP.NET" and "Learn ASP.NET"... so if you wanted to Learn ASP.NET, I'd suggest you click on the links below the "Learn ASP.NET" section.

JoshStodola:
Whoops, now I am at the MySpace front page greeted by 3 script errors. Thanks!

- Blaming ASP.NET for script errors on MySpace... wow, that's constructive and relavent.

JoshStodola:
continuously neglecting to correct this sites legendary search problem(s) makes you all look utterly foolish

- Everyone will agree that the search feature needs work (even a lot of work).... but "makes you all look utterly foolish" - amazing.

I think I'm done with this thread... and while I don't think that this post will change the few people who are distinctively negative, I am posting it for the people who read posts like this one and need to know that if you needlessly bash things, you're not the cool guy :)

Re: My Thoughts

vcsjones — Thu, 02 Aug 2007 18:34:44 GMT

Nullable:
ZOMG teh SUUUUUCKS!!!

JoshStodola:
Hmm, I thought I did a pretty good job of keeping my initial post constructive

I agree.

Re: My Thoughts

JoshStodola — Thu, 02 Aug 2007 14:08:16 GMT

Nullable:
but your initial post was basicaly "ZOMG teh SUUUUUCKS!!!"

Hmm, I thought I did a pretty good job of keeping my initial post constructive

Re: My Thoughts

Nullable — Thu, 02 Aug 2007 00:44:01 GMT

Heh, always interesting...

First - The site that I was talking about that looks ugly is www.happycog.com ... even though I have a link to A List Apart on my site (SingingEels), I don't think that their design looks all that great.

Second - IMHO stands for "In My Humble Opinion"... I wasn't questioning your honesty :P

Third - (talking the front pages only here) IIS.NET is more "simplistic" meaning... the front page has ONE content area... news... ASP.NET has Weblogs, articles, news, getting started etc.

Fourth - I agree that everyone should contribute (constructively) to the community... even if that contribution is pointing out possible flaws for the sake of helping something grow (much like a gardener might trim off dead branches to encourage new growth)... but your initial post was basicaly "ZOMG teh SUUUUUCKS!!!" :)

JoshStodola:
Are you bothered by everything that does not mimic your personal outlook?

- I don't use Outlook... I use Thunderbird... (just kidding - I think my answers to your questions above answer this question as well)

Re: My Thoughts

JoshStodola — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 17:20:59 GMT

Nullable:
the sites you mentioned above stink (and look like crap)

Uhhh, what sites are you talking about?

Nullable:
I am glad that the two people who used the "IMO" acronym didn't use "IMHO"

What Tim, you dont think I am being honest?! Nice ego you got there...

Nullable:
Also, IIS.NET is very much more simplistic compared to ASP.NET (and doesn't have nearly as much user driven content).

Really? How do you figure that site to be "more simplistic" than this one? How would you define "simplistic"? It has plenty of content, although I would agree it doesn't get as much traffic as this one.

Nullable:
Oh, quick question... do you guys have websites? - I think we'd all love to see them :)

Yeah, my blog will be done in about a week. I have a web site as well. I am no world class designer by any means, in fact, I am not very good at it period. That doesn't mean that I should never criticize other designs. Honest and constructive feedback is invaluable, no matter who it is coming from. You might think the new design is better, I don't care. That is your opinion, you are entitled to have it and I am entitled to disagree with it.

Are you bothered by everything that does not mimic your personal outlook?

Re: My Thoughts

bullpit — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 12:34:40 GMT

vcsjones:
All of Josh's points are valid

Not all I must say. The Getting Started section is pretty good. Though the section has a brief introduction, it provides so many resources like books to read, videos, starter kits etc. Its everything about just getting started quickly. If the users want in depth material, hit the books.

Josh- Can you please suggest what should be there instead?

I agree that Search sucks and a color scheme personalization would be better. "IMO", I don't like too much of rounded corners in websites overall (not just this one, and this site happens to be all about it). I like more of flat designs, well...its IMO.

I use other Micorsoft forums also, like this one: http://forums.microsoft.com/msdn/default.aspx, and the design and functionality is really good. For example, when I try create a new thread and write the subject line, it gives me all relevant threads before posting, and often times I find an answer in one of those posts.

If this is "An Official Microsoft ASP.NET 2.0 Site", why doesn't it follow standards?

Re: My Thoughts

TATWORTH — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 04:09:30 GMT

>it would be better if we had the best of both worlds.

I agree!

Re: My Thoughts

vcsjones — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 03:44:13 GMT

Nullable:
Oh, quick question... do you guys have websites? - I think we'd all love to see them :)

Nullable, we are not "bashing" the new design. We as members of the site share a concern. We all have our opinions. All of Josh's points are valid. The site is a little hard to navigate through, it is too blue ~~IMHO~~ IMO, and the search feature is useless. These are all valid concerns. However, your points are valid, too. The new design does have improvements, such as the user content up at the top; but it would be better if we had the best of both worlds.

Re: My Thoughts

Nullable — Wed, 01 Aug 2007 02:05:48 GMT

The new design is a lot better than the old one... the sites you mentioned above stink (and look like crap)... the new site (especially the new front page) puts user content to the top (articles and blogs)... whereas the old site had a pretty static "Get Started" thing that wasn't doing much.

I am glad that the two people who used the "IMO" acronym didn't use "IMHO"...

Also, IIS.NET is very much more simplistic compared to ASP.NET (and doesn't have nearly as much user driven content).

Oh, quick question... do you guys have websites? - I think we'd all love to see them :)

Re: My Thoughts

vcsjones — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 23:11:59 GMT

I am not very pleased with the new design, myself. It is blue, but I wouldn't mind it if the redesign had a purpose. It seems to me, that the only clear motivation to change the old design was "it was old", and not serve some greater purpose such as improved functionality and organization. There was nothing wrong with the old design, in my opinion. I would have liked to see more user feedback considered, and some of it implemented as well.

Re: My Thoughts

JoshStodola — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:33:10 GMT

Exactly!

Thanks again...

Re: My Thoughts

MilanNegovan — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:44:02 GMT

Nah, it's actually easy because I'm merely stating my opinion. Being an MVP doesn't confer on me any privileged or extra-special status, and neither does it bend MVPs to collusion. At least not the ones who value objectivity.

Re: My Thoughts

JoshStodola — Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:24:09 GMT

I admire your honesty, Milan. It can't be easy for an ASP.NET MVP to publicly admit that. Thanks!

Re: My Thoughts

directed — Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:48:40 GMT

I agree...it's just a big mess at the moment. It looked alot better with the previous version. I don't know what really happened but you really made the site worse. Simplicity should be the keyword!