>>Logic 101 for beginners: you can not turn every sentence around. Huh? What is Logic 101? >>yet it was a O/R mapper way more powerfull than LLBGEN pro I've tried EntityBroker out as well... I don't agree... can you quantify your statement? Since entitybroker is your commercial product, I would be very surprised if you DIDN'T say it was better... but how? I'll switch over if you can prove it to me...