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Last post Mar 25, 2012 10:52 AM by francesco abbruzzese
Mar 23, 2012 09:06 PM|LINK
Mar 23, 2012 09:11 PM|LINK
In short web site development just became much more costly
What?! Why ?
even though telerik is trying for example to bridge the gap with mvc offerings I see this as not profitable for third party developers
Why do you see as not profitable ?!
Third party controls not supported by mvc
Third party controls WEBFORMS are not supported by MVC.
Other controls yes, like http://mvccontrolstoolkit.codeplex.com/.
4. In short: what are you missing from WebForms in MVC?
Mar 23, 2012 09:18 PM|LINK
In short web site development just became much more costly
This is not entirely true. There are a range of client side controls that work with asp.net mvc and overall there are several places where mvc enhances productivity over webforms. The model binder is a great example of that, instead of developers spending
extra time writing left to right assignment code to populate business objects, the binder does it automatically. MVC also has a scaffolder which makes building crud pages incredibly fast.
Is there a learning curve? Yes there is, but I'd wager that any decent mvc developer can build a website just as quickly as a web forms developer can. The 3rd party control for webforms do offer nice graphics, but so do the client side or mvc controls so
i see that as a non issue.
then mvc is a better bet. This is especially important with the growing popularity of single page apps and mobile apps (both tedious with webforms and incredibly easy with mvc).
Mar 24, 2012 08:39 AM|LINK
In addi\tion to Andrei:
NOW all mayor producers are producing controls for Mvc......so your assertion is false: in particular The Mvc Controls Toolkit(I am the coordinator of) was built specifically for Mvc...and its controls have nothing less than webform controls. Moreover, Telerik
controls are quite good and improved a lot from their initial version...difficult for me to understand why all these control "doesn't help" developers...
About the fact that producing a web site with Mvc costs more....probably this is due to organization problems.
The point is that "asp.net Mvc" is a more professional tool oriented to "professionals" or to people that would like to acquire a good knowledge of Web programming. This means, that while "anyone" can make something "running" in webforms...the same is not true
with Mvc. Asp.net Mvc requires organization of the code and knowledge of the web. However the stuffs that "anyone" is able to produce with asp.net mvc in a few minutes...have almost no commercial value....if one needs to implement a serious project...it is
not possible to implemt it in a few minuts also with webforms...
ON THE CONTRARY Mvc helps in obtaining a modulare, well organized software that is easy to mantain.
Mvc requires all partecipants to a project be "true developers"
Mvc force them to develop a well organized modular easy to mantain software
The speed you thing you might obtain with webforms is just illusory...
You can do faster just because webforms allow you to make unorganized, confused software that do "something near to" customer specifications if the target code is simple.....Now if you want something Good, and Complex out of Webforms...you have to spend
Time and use "true developers"...as with Mvc
Obviously, if a company would like to use cheap, not skilled "developers" and don't want to invest in "knowledge"...Mvc might appear expansive.....but does someone actually thing that there is...room in the market for low level products produced by low level
teams? I think ...not bcesuse very simple web sites can be implemeted easily by just a graphic designer with a CMS...with no additional programming...and the remainder of the market..doesn't accept low level products due to the globalization and high level
of competition of the field.
Mar 25, 2012 02:26 AM|LINK
Mar 25, 2012 05:37 AM|LINK
I can't find any objective data to support switching technologies for new product development, data that management requires in order to make an informed decision.
In my opinion you will not find . Why ? Because that means same team ( with SAME knowledge of both technologies!) make same product twice. More, you will not find how difficult is to make VERSION 2 of the product in MVC and WebForms .
In my opinion, not management should know about technical details( MVC or WebForms) . Do you inform management if you use repeater or gridview? ( if yes, is technical architect, not management!)
, then WebForms is the answer.
the assertion that the use of patterns equals better performing code? Bad code can be generated either way
Let me put this way: You have a WebForms, with Page_InitializeCulture event for globalization, Page_Init for dynamic controls, Page_Load for loading data and a GridView_RowBound event to format the grid row.
IN a row you have a button that performs a command . The management wants you , for version 2, to not refresh the page when clicking the button.
YOu decide to put an update panel to performa ajax post. Now, fast, tell me the events order!
3. To resume the discussion - this is my rule of thumb:
a. For an intranet site, to deploy and get the money fast , use WebForms
b. For an internet site, in which the bandwith and upgrading and maintenance is important, use MVC.
Mar 25, 2012 10:52 AM|LINK
I am more optimistic than Andrei ..maybe you find a comparative study between Mvc, and Webforms....however it will not be significative of what happens on a ACTUAL project. It is an old strory....comparisons among development techniques are not reliable
for the following reasons:
1) They are done on TOY projects(also if the authors...say thery have setup an ACTUAL project), while the BIG problems are on complex ACTUAL projects. As suggested by Andrei IT COST TOO MUCH doing it on an actual project...
2) If the team that performs the two projects is THE SAME then the technology that will be tried AFTER, has an advantage...because it will benefit from the experience on the subject gained while desenvolving the project with the first technique
3) if one try to avoid problem 2 either by changeing the Team, or by changing the project...than it is impossible to prove either that the two teams have the same skills, or that the two projects have the same level of difficulty.
The only stuffs that are reliable are statistical data taken over several teams, and several projects...this way differences tend to cancel out for the laws of big numbers.
So take balance sheet data of companies working with web forms and Mvc and compare them against some finacial indices set...to have a measure of their success.
On the other side if you would like a comparison on a TOY project you can set up a comparison yourself in a few days. I do this experiment each time I train a team before starting a project, to make they "catch the feel" of Webforms and
1) Choose a simple problem like CRUD on a list of customers, each with a list of order. Keep it very simple..the order will have just a description and an amount,...just two DB tables with a 1 to many relation.
2) Ask them to implement CRUD with web forms...with no "constraints". They should be able to implement it in less than 4 hours.
3) Ask them to do the same in Mvc...without using any scaffolding, but with at least the following requirements:
It will take less than a couple of days to complete this job for 1 person
4) Ask them to modify the webform project to conforms with the above specifications. ....he he :) . After having played a little with the first version of the webform project for sure they will decide...to restart it from the scratch...The time needed to
complete...WILL NOT BE LESS THAN the one required to complete the Mvc project.